We asked comedians and Boners of the Heart co-hosts Rose Matafeo and Alice Snedden to have a conversation about women and comedy to mark International Women’s Day. The following (lightly edited and hyperlinked) Facebook conversation is what we received.
Alice:
Na, it’s still the same
Someone brought them back from America
i just realised this is just like that Jonathan Safran Foer/Natalie Portman exchange
Shotgun being Natalie Portman
Actually, I can be Jonathan if you want.
Also, I looked up Jonathan Safran Foer’s name to make sure I was spelling it right.
Rose:
I always pussy out of saying his last name
Ok Alice, real talk.
Who was the first comedian you ever saw live?
live as in ‘live’ not ‘live’ as in ‘alive’
Alice:
Kk. Real talk, honestly I think it was Michael McIntyre
I went with my family
I was quite old, cause I wasn’t into stand up comedy as a kid. It was never something I would have even considered going to see. But I used to love the old fashioned roasts, hosted by Dean Martin and stuff.
We had them on video and I would watch them and Marx Brothers quite a bit
Rose:
I didn’t realise you grew up in the 1930s
Alice:
Fuck you
Sorry f**k you
Rose:
Zeppo Marx has the same birthday as me
Actually, I have the same birthday as him, if anything
Alice:
That’s dope
Groucho was my favourite
Rose:
You are sort of like Groucho
The good thing about being a woman in comedy is that you can pretty much be influenced by the style of any dude and no one notices
Alice:
I like to think there’s a little bit of Groucho inside of me
Rose:
Whereas when you’re a white guy who is clearly influenced by another white guy people totally notice
Alice:
Yea that’s true.
White guys have it the hardest
Rose:
And don’t you forget it
Alice:
Do you remember the first joke you told?
Rose:
The first joke I ever properly wrote was one about the Denny’s jingle that I did in one of the Class Comedians workshops when I was 13. I was too young to do the programme, so I came back two years later with the same joke, which I’m going to be honest with you – it bloody killed in the room
Alice:
I’d prefer you lie
Rose:
I don’t know if Sam can really put gifs in this article but I don’t care
(Editor’s Note: I can’t, but you get the gist.)
Alice:
That’s amazing that you were doing it so young. How did you know so early on that you couldn’t do anything else?
Rose:
I was super into drama and media studies and english, and I guess for a while I thought I could become an actor or something. But the idea of taking myself seriously enough to do drama sort of embarrassed me, so comedy was the perfect avenue for me to be able to use acting in a way where I could always just palm it off as a joke rather than taking myself seriously.
Alice:
I feel like you’re getting more into acting now though
Do you feel less self conscious now?
Rose:
I don’t know. I think being earnest and fully committing to something is the funniest thing ever, so I like to do a lot more act outs and stuff in my shows and stand up. But the idea of like, actually having to act and inhabit a serious role makes me cringe.
I hate seeing myself on screen
Alice:
I hate watching myself on screen
But I wonder if you get used to it
I used to hate listening to myself, but now I’m kind of immune
Rose:
Same
Since we’ve started the podcast
I’ve learnt to hate myself
Alice:
Though looking at yourself is tough
That’s because you’re growing
Sometimes I’ll hear myself talk on the podcast and I’ll want to curl into a ball at the things I’ve said
Rose:
Same
Alice:
Or how much of a dick I sound like
But I also think there’s something weirdly comforting about having these versions of yourself in public that aren’t 100% curated, or what you’d want to present
I feel like it makes me relax about other work in general
The more stuff I have out there that’s not perfect or that I’d like to change but can’t
Rose:
I still post pretty thirsty selfies which is embarrassing but I try to own it
Alice:
Yea
Your insta is thirsty af
Rose:
I’m fully aware
Alice:
But I support you 100
Rose:
Thank you
Alice:
I like the way you put your shit out there
I think it’s a good move
Have you ever had a non-comedy job?
Rose:
Yeah, I worked as an usher and bar person at the Aotea Centre and Civic Theatre when I was in uni for a bit
It was a weird crossover where I was on 7 Days and still working there
So sometimes people would recognise me when I was selling them an ice cream
Alice:
I’m crying rn
Rose:
I hated that job but only because I get stressed out when handling money sometimes.
Alice:
When I worked at a cafe easily the most stressful part of my day was balancing the cash register
Rose:
Totally
Alice:
If it was ever out I would get so paranoid that I was subconsciously stealing from the till but I just couldn’t remember
Rose:
Do you reckon comedians are terrible with money?
Alice:
Hmm
Yes
On the whole
Esp in the early days. I think you get better. I feel like I’m just becoming responsible with my day to day money. I got an accountant etc. That’s a big relief
But the space sometimes in between money and no money, means when you get it, you just want to spend it, instead of save
HOT TAKE
Rose:
I think I’m running out of money
I’m so bad at budgeting
I’ve never had to borrow money off my parents or family members though, which I think is a small achievement in this day and age
Alice:
That’s amazing
I can’t even say that about this week probably
Rose:
That being said, I will probably hit you up for some cash when I get back
Alice:
You can stay in my house for free
If you do the dishes and some light weeding in the garden
Rose:
I’ll for sure do that
Alice:
And also my washing
Rose:
Do you actually have a spare room? Because I do need somewhere to stay for real.
I refuse to do any chores but I WILL pay.
I’ve spent all my savings to be able to come live up here [Editor’s Note: Rose moved to the UK in 2015], which makes me very depressed sometimes haha.
Alice:
Yea, it’s hard to see all the money go
But you’ve 100% made the right call
I also spent so much money going overseas
But it was worth it
Rose:
You did. And you loved it
And I think it has made you a better person/comedian
Alice:
haha
I’m not sure you’re in a position to say that
I don’t think you knew me pre/post overseas experience
Maybe I’m much worse
Rose:
Genuinely though, your style is so much more American, more so than I see in a lot of other people in NZ
I’d say you and Nic Sampson and Guy Williams all feel very American to me
Alice:
You for real rn?
Rose:
yes!
Alice:
I do a pretty good impression of a southern bell
Rose:
Do you prefer American comedy to British stuff? What were you drawn to when you were first starting out?
Like, who are your comedy idols
Alice:
I think my first ever comedy idol was Billy Connolly because that’s what my parents watched
But once I was making my own decisions, Sarah Silverman had a really big impact
And Tina Fey
I was obsessed with 30 Rock
I don’t think I’ve ever laughed harder at a show
And I’d never seen a character really like Liz Lemon who was such a mess
But also self righteous
Rose:
It was a seminal text for many young women of our generation I think
Alice:
Yea
Which sometimes makes me reticent to name check her
But the heart wants, what the heart wants
Rose:
I remember every time I would go over to see Alex Casey (off Spinoff fame) she would have 30 Rock playing on her TV constantly on loop like it was just music in the background
Alice:
Yea 100%
Rose:
Tina Fey has said some salty things but she is so talented
Bossypants is salty
Alice
Alice:
So many salty things
Sometimes, she doesn’t quite get it right
But, I think she’s on the right side of more stuff then she is on the wrong side
Rose:
Yeah, totally.
Do you think you’re a competitive person?
Alice:
Yes
Next question
Are you?
Rose:
Yes
Also though
When I first started doing comedy in NZ, there were genuinely like, less than 10 women performing regularly. Ever. Even in Raw nights and stuff
That was 2007/08
Alice:
Fuck
Rose:
And I feel like you were made to be competitive, because there would be slots for women
Like you were a magician
And I remember feeling so conflicted about feeling like I had to compete with other women to get that shot. Because I didn’t even want to feel like that, it was sort imposed on women performing at that time.
Alice:
I would never want to shut other women out
It’s a false dialogue we’re made to believe
Rose:
I’m so glad I can be ruthlessly competitive and jealous and horrible to any comedian now, despite their gender
Because that is true equality
Alice:
And a lot of that is to with opportunities being male dominated and then the women being an after thought
Rose:
Of course
Alice:
But I agree that hating another women’s comedy is the high water mark for equality
Rose:
100%
Something I want to see more are women performer’s styles being more appreciated for how varied and unique they are. I don’t know if that makes sense
Alice:
It does 100%
It’s frustrating that female comic voices are homogenised
Rose:
Like, if I hear another fucking dude talk about how his influences are Louis or Hicks I will genuinely blow my brains out
When do you ever hear men who do comedy talk about any of their influences being women?
Alice:
Shit, never
I have such a conflicting stance about Louis CK now
Rose:
I don’t care about him
hahaha
Alice:
I used to love him, but there’s so much shit out there about him now. I just feel like, can I really be looking to you for cultural commentary
Rose:
He writes a good joke, he just doesn’t get me going. I will take silly voices over biting cultural commentary any day of the week
Alice:
I just have zero time now for male comedians being creeps and then being forgiven cause they’re funny
I love a bit of biting cultural commentary
Rose:
You do
Alice:
But I’m tired of hearing it from predominantly men
I just want to mix it up
Rose:
I love silly voices.
Alice:
Yea
I like the silly joke
Rose:
I totally know what you mean about women’s voices in comedy being homogenised though – that’s exactly it
Alice:
As if our experiences are all the same, so you just need to hear from one of us
Rose:
That’s the next fucking frontier isn’t it
Women In Comedy Is Not A Genre
Yeah. But also as if all our styles are the same?
Alice:
Yea
It’s crazy
There’s so much that you do that I would never do
Because it’s not funny!
(Editor’s Note: The next message happens after what I can only assume is a long pause)
Are you mad?
Rose:
No, I was replying to a work email actually
Just remember that I’m a Pisces who never forgets anything
Alice:
Like an elephant!
(Editor’s Note: See above re: assumption, long pause)
Are you mad again?
Rose:
No
Alice:
You fuming rn?
Rose:
No I’m hungry
Alice:
K
Go eat
I don’t like to be around you when you’re hungry
Rose:
I’ll talk to you tomorrow
Alice:
It makes me nervous when you get low blood sugar
Rose:
me too
Alice:
Good luck out there
Rose:
Cheers mate
Speak in the morning
Alice:
We’ll see. We’ll see.
Alice and Rose both have shows in the comedy festival, Alice Snedden: Self-Titled and Rose Matafeo: Sassy Best Friend. They also co-host a weekly podcast, Boners of the Heart, on the Little Empire Podcast network, which you can find here.