When the Facts Change

Bernard Hickey’s essential weekly guide to the intersection of economics, business and politics in Aotearoa. Created by The Spinoff together with Kiwibank.

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Latest Episodes

15 October 2021

Joining the dots to solve the housing crisis

How do we connect all the money in the institutional funding sector with the housing projects that would begin to solve the housing crisis?

There’s no shortage of cash piled up in New Zealand’s banks and pension funds – but what we do have a shortage of is affordable housing. So how do we connect all the money in the institutional funding sector with the housing projects that would begin to solve the housing… There’s no shortage of cash piled up in New Zealand’s banks and pension funds – but what we do have a shortage of is affordable housing. So how do we connect all the money in the institutional funding sector with the housing projects that would begin to solve the housing crisis? To find out more, Bernard talks to Community Finance GM Paul Gilberd, Forever Affordable Housing founder Imogen Schoots and Community Housing Aotearoa CEO Victoria Crockford. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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8 October 2021

What we’ve learned about working from home

To find out more about how the culture of work has changed, the rise of burnout and the inequities the pandemic has exposed, Bernard Hickey talks to tech leader Rowan Simpson and clinical psychologist Jacqui Maguire.

Over the last 18 months Covid-19 has changed the way many of us work and put real pressures on how we organise our lives. To find out more about how the culture of work has changed, the rise of burnout and the inequities the pandemic has exposed, Bernard Hickey talks… Over the last 18 months Covid-19 has changed the way many of us work and put real pressures on how we organise our lives. To find out more about how the culture of work has changed, the rise of burnout and the inequities the pandemic has exposed, Bernard Hickey talks to tech leader Rowan Simpson and clinical psychologist Jacqui Maguire. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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1 October 2021

The B Corp moment

Bernard Hickey talks to Kiwibank CEO Steve Jurkovich about what B Corp certification means and why they’ve done it, and B Corp ambassador Tim Jones from Grow Good explains what companies have to do to become accredited.

More and more companies are committing to doing sustainable and ethical business by becoming B Corporation accredited. Bernard Hickey talks to Kiwibank CEO Steve Jurkovich about what B Corp certification means and why they’ve done it, and B Corp ambassador Tim Jones from Grow Good explains what companies have to… More and more companies are committing to doing sustainable and ethical business by becoming B Corporation accredited. Bernard Hickey talks to Kiwibank CEO Steve Jurkovich about what B Corp certification means and why they’ve done it, and B Corp ambassador Tim Jones from Grow Good explains what companies have to do to become accredited. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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24 September 2021

How sustainable is your supply chain?

Bernard speaks to John Holt, who’s launching All Things Considered – a global directory that collates, organises and fact checks the sustainability claims of companies and organisations – and Sam Jones, founder of apparel company Little Yellow Bird.

Over the last 30 years, we’ve built an incredibly complex supply chain to give us stuff really cheap. But is it really? Or have the costs just been pushed onto the environment and other workers? How do we find out which products are produced cleanly and don’t impose those unseen… Over the last 30 years, we’ve built an incredibly complex supply chain to give us stuff really cheap. But is it really? Or have the costs just been pushed onto the environment and other workers? How do we find out which products are produced cleanly and don’t impose those unseen costs? On this week’s episode, Bernard speaks to John Holt, who’s launching All Things Considered – a global directory that collates, organises and fact checks the sustainability claims of companies and organisations. He also talks to Sam Jones, founder of apparel company Little Yellow Bird, about how she’s using this information to do business in a sustainable, transparent way. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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17 September 2021

Cleaning up capitalism from the inside out

ESG investing is a movement that has arisen over the last decade or so, where big fund managers invest only in companies that have sustainable environmental, social and governance policies. It turns out this is also the most profitable approach in the long run.

ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance) investing is a movement that has arisen over the last decade or so, where big fund managers invest only in companies with sustainable, socially responsible policies. It turns out this is often also the most profitable approach in the long run. One of the leading players… ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance) investing is a movement that has arisen over the last decade or so, where big fund managers invest only in companies with sustainable, socially responsible policies. It turns out this is often also the most profitable approach in the long run. One of the leading players in this movement has been the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and its CEO Matt Whineray joins Bernard Hickey in this episode to talk about how the fund operates its ESG policy. Bernard also talks to Barry Coates, founder and CEO of individual ethical investment tool Mindful Money, about how to tell if a company is as ethical as they say they are. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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14 September 2021

Bonus episode: Why Kiwibank is embracing te ao Māori

Simon Day speaks to Teahooterangi Pihama, head of Māori advisory, and Keita Te Ngoungou, Kiwibank Māori advisor.

In recognition of Te Wiki o Te Reo Māori and what the language means to the fabric of Aotearoa, The Spinoff’s commercial editorial director Simon Day speaks to Teahooterangi Pihama, head of Māori advisory, and Keita Te Ngoungou, Kiwibank Māori advisor. They’ve been given a mandate to steer the Kiwibank… In recognition of Te Wiki o Te Reo Māori and what the language means to the fabric of Aotearoa, The Spinoff’s commercial editorial director Simon Day speaks to Teahooterangi Pihama, head of Māori advisory, and Keita Te Ngoungou, Kiwibank Māori advisor. They’ve been given a mandate to steer the Kiwibank waka on it’s journey into te ao Māori, and talk about why te reo Māori is important for all New Zealanders, and how lifting the cultural competency at Kiwibank can improve outcomes for Māori staff and customers, support the growth of the Māori economy and raise the financial capabilities of Māori. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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10 September 2021

The future of capitalism, with Luigi Zingales

Bernard Hickey interviews renowned Chicago School economist, author and podcaster Luigi Zingales (Capitalisn’t) about what went wrong with corporate capitalism and how it could be fixed.

Gordon Gekko’s “Greed is Good” era of shareholder-driven global capitalism is ending, but what and who will replace it? Bernard Hickey interviews renowned Chicago School economist, author and podcaster Luigi Zingales (Capitalisn't) about what went wrong with corporate capitalism and how it could be fixed. When the Facts Change is… Gordon Gekko’s “Greed is Good” era of shareholder-driven global capitalism is ending, but what and who will replace it? Bernard Hickey interviews renowned Chicago School economist, author and podcaster Luigi Zingales (Capitalisn't) about what went wrong with corporate capitalism and how it could be fixed. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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3 September 2021

The case for mandatory vaccines in the workplace

Bernard Hickey talks to BusinessNZ CEO Kirk Hope and Frances Hughes from Oceania Healthcare about the big task and big decisions around vaccination businesses face in the months ahead.

Businesses face a big task and some big decisions in the months ahead. They need to ensure as many staff as possible get vaccinated, without breaking the law or alienating their workforces. They’ll have to look at their own vaccination programmes, their own testing policies and their employment policies. Should… Businesses face a big task and some big decisions in the months ahead. They need to ensure as many staff as possible get vaccinated, without breaking the law or alienating their workforces. They’ll have to look at their own vaccination programmes, their own testing policies and their employment policies. Should they adopt a “no jab no job” policy? Can they? To discuss where these lines will be drawn and who should be doing that drawing – businesses or government – Bernard Hickey talks to BusinessNZ CEO Kirk Hope and Frances Hughes from Oceania Healthcare. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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1 September 2021

Bonus episode: How businesses are responding to the return of Covid-19

The Spinoff’s commercial editorial director Simon Day speaks to Quentin Quin, chief customer officer – business banking at Kiwibank, about what businesses have learned from the last 18 months and how that’s changed their response to the most recent outbreak.

When New Zealand’s second national level four lockdown was announced in August, it was a situation many New Zealand business owners were already familiar with and prepared for. The Spinoff’s commercial editorial director Simon Day speaks to Quentin Quin, chief customer officer – business banking at Kiwibank, about what businesses… When New Zealand’s second national level four lockdown was announced in August, it was a situation many New Zealand business owners were already familiar with and prepared for. The Spinoff’s commercial editorial director Simon Day speaks to Quentin Quin, chief customer officer – business banking at Kiwibank, about what businesses have learned from the last 18 months and how that’s changed their response to the most recent outbreak. Before joining Kiwibank, Quentin worked in ​​a number of post conflict countries, emerging economies and unregulated unstable business environments, and he compares that experience to the economic uncertainty of Covid-19. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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27 August 2021

Who’s taking advantage of the wage subsidy scheme?

In this week’s episode, Bernard Hickey looks at the ethics of the wage subsidy scheme and asks: where is the accountability?

Last year the government paid out $14 billion in wage subsidies to businesses as part of the Covid-19 response. This included a number of large companies who went on to deliver big annual profits and dividends to shareholders – and very few of those companies have repaid it. In this… Last year the government paid out $14 billion in wage subsidies to businesses as part of the Covid-19 response. This included a number of large companies who went on to deliver big annual profits and dividends to shareholders – and very few of those companies have repaid it. In this week’s episode, Bernard Hickey looks at the ethics of the wage subsidy scheme and asks: where is the accountability? And is the social license that was there for wage subsidies in March 2020 still there now? Guests: Professor Jilnaught Wong from the University of Auckland and Peter Vial of Chartered Accountants Australia New Zealand. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.  

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20 August 2021

The big population questions we need to answer

In this episode, Bernard Hickey looks at the need for an actual population policy alongside new migration settings.

How big do we want Aotearoa to be? How fast do we want it to grow, and where? And are we still a classless society, or are we becoming a country of owners and servants? In this episode, Bernard Hickey looks at the need for an actual population policy alongside… How big do we want Aotearoa to be? How fast do we want it to grow, and where? And are we still a classless society, or are we becoming a country of owners and servants? In this episode, Bernard Hickey looks at the need for an actual population policy alongside new migration settings. To find out more he talks to demographers Paul Spoonley and Tahu Kukutai, the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission's Geoff Cooper and geographer Francis Collins. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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13 August 2021

The political economy of the climate crisis

How is it that democracies can only make big, politically difficult changes when faced with an emergency? We did it last year with Covid-19 – so could we do it again with the climate emergency that is in our faces right now?

How is it that democracies can only make big, politically difficult changes when faced with an emergency? We did it last year with Covid-19 – so could we do it again with the climate emergency that is in our faces right now? New reports released this week all point to… How is it that democracies can only make big, politically difficult changes when faced with an emergency? We did it last year with Covid-19 – so could we do it again with the climate emergency that is in our faces right now? New reports released this week all point to the fact we can’t really afford to wait any longer – we need to take some political and economic pain to reduce emissions, and do it fast. To explore the political economy issues of dealing with climate change as an emergency, Bernard talks to Stephen Mills from UMR, researcher Jess Berentson-Shaw and the 1point5 Project’s Paul Winton. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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6 August 2021

How do we fix our unkind migration system?

What does the way we treat our migrant population say about who we are as a country?

What does the way we treat our migrant population say about who we are as a country? With around 200,000 people living and working in New Zealand on temporary visas, pressure is mounting on the government to make sweeping policy changes to address the limbo these migrants are being left… What does the way we treat our migrant population say about who we are as a country? With around 200,000 people living and working in New Zealand on temporary visas, pressure is mounting on the government to make sweeping policy changes to address the limbo these migrants are being left in – an already Kafkaesque situation which has only been exacerbated by Covid. To look at how we ended up in this situation and what needs to be done to tackle the problems that have arisen as a result, Bernard talks to National’s immigration spokesperson Erica Stanford, The New Zealand Initiative's Eric Crampton and Dr Oliver Hartwich, along with immigration lawyer Alistair McClymont. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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30 July 2021

Back to the future of public transport

Bernard Hickey goes on a journey to find out how New Zealand’s fascinating public transport history can inform our future, meeting musician, historian and public transport advocate Anthonie Tonnon at Whanganui’s historic Durie Hill underground elevator.

Bernard Hickey goes on a journey to find out how New Zealand's fascinating public transport history can inform our future, meeting musician, historian and public transport advocate Anthonie Tonnon at Whanganui’s historic Durie Hill underground elevator. Built in 1919, the elevator was once part of an extensive and heavily used… Bernard Hickey goes on a journey to find out how New Zealand's fascinating public transport history can inform our future, meeting musician, historian and public transport advocate Anthonie Tonnon at Whanganui’s historic Durie Hill underground elevator. Built in 1919, the elevator was once part of an extensive and heavily used public transport network in the city – how were these networks built, why did they die off and what can they tell us about the future of public transport in this country? To find out more about the current state of public transport and what happens next, Bernard talks to transport minister Michael Wood. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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28 July 2021

Bonus episode: SMEs with Kiwibank’s Joanna Greaves

The Spinoff business editor Michael Andrew speaks to Joanna Greaves, head of the small and medium enterprise team at Kiwibank.

The Spinoff business editor Michael Andrew speaks to Joanna Greaves, head of the small and medium enterprise team at Kiwibank. As an award-winning dairy farmer, accountant, agricultural ambassador and small business owner, Joanna has a wonderful insight into the value and the realities of SMEs in New Zealand. When the… The Spinoff business editor Michael Andrew speaks to Joanna Greaves, head of the small and medium enterprise team at Kiwibank. As an award-winning dairy farmer, accountant, agricultural ambassador and small business owner, Joanna has a wonderful insight into the value and the realities of SMEs in New Zealand. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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23 July 2021

How do we get a vaccination rate over 80%?

Around the world, countries are seeing Covid-19 vaccination rates plateauing at around 50-60% – and it’s hurting them badly. So how will we get our Covid-19 vaccination rates up to the 80%-90% required for herd immunity?

Around the world, countries are seeing Covid-19 vaccination rates plateauing at around 50-60% – and it's hurting them badly. So how will we get our Covid-19 vaccination rates up to the 80%-90% required for herd immunity? In this episode, Bernard Hickey explains how we can nudge our way to that… Around the world, countries are seeing Covid-19 vaccination rates plateauing at around 50-60% – and it's hurting them badly. So how will we get our Covid-19 vaccination rates up to the 80%-90% required for herd immunity? In this episode, Bernard Hickey explains how we can nudge our way to that target using behavioural economics and behavioural finance to get there. To find out more, he speaks to Māori health advocate Rawiri McKree Jansen and vaccinologist Helen Petousis-Harris. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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16 July 2021

A big money-saving solar power idea

New Zealand’s electricity market isn’t working to produce enough renewable power to get to carbon zero by 2050 – but maybe there’s a solution in solar power and batteries in everyone’s homes.

New Zealand's electricity market isn't working to produce enough renewable power to get to carbon zero by 2050 – but maybe there’s a solution in solar power and batteries in everyone’s homes. In this episode, Bernard Hickey explores an idea for how the government could shake up the electricity sector and… New Zealand's electricity market isn't working to produce enough renewable power to get to carbon zero by 2050 – but maybe there’s a solution in solar power and batteries in everyone’s homes. In this episode, Bernard Hickey explores an idea for how the government could shake up the electricity sector and return the big taxpayer-built power schemes to public ownership. Guests: Flick Electric Co CEO Steve O’Connor and Eric Pyle, the director of public affairs and policy at solarZero. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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9 July 2021

An epic intergenerational wealth transfer

Bernard Hickey reveals an intergenerational wealth transfer worth $1 trillion, and how it could be atoned for and reversed – if only to ensure the culprits can enjoy watching their grandchildren grow up healthy, warm and in person.

Over the last 30 years, a generation of voters and politicians made a decision to stop investing in infrastructure – it’s expensive, and it means you can’t cut taxes or keep rates low. Now we’re seeing the collective catastrophe of this underinvestment landing on our heads in the form of… Over the last 30 years, a generation of voters and politicians made a decision to stop investing in infrastructure – it’s expensive, and it means you can’t cut taxes or keep rates low. Now we’re seeing the collective catastrophe of this underinvestment landing on our heads in the form of labour shortages and massive housing affordability problems. In this episode, Bernard Hickey reveals an intergenerational wealth transfer worth $1 trillion, and how it could be atoned for and reversed – if only to ensure the culprits can enjoy watching their grandchildren grow up healthy, warm and in person. Guests: Ockham Residential founder Mark Todd and Stephen Sutorius, owner of Thames Pacific. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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2 July 2021

Looking for hope in our housing crisis

In last week’s episode, Bernard Hickey talked about how he had given up hope for affordable housing. This week, he talks to some people who still have hope to hear their ideas on how to solve New Zealand’s housing crisis.

In last week’s episode, Bernard Hickey talked about how he had given up hope for affordable housing. This week, he talks to some people who still have hope to hear their ideas on how to solve New Zealand’s housing crisis. Kay Saville-Smith is a longtime researcher and policy advisor on… In last week’s episode, Bernard Hickey talked about how he had given up hope for affordable housing. This week, he talks to some people who still have hope to hear their ideas on how to solve New Zealand’s housing crisis. Kay Saville-Smith is a longtime researcher and policy advisor on housing who still believes there are ways through – in fact, she’s more hopeful now than she has been for years. And Ronji Tanielu sees the real-world impact of the housing crisis as a policy analyst and advisor for the Salvation Army, but still has plenty of hope and ideas for change. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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30 June 2021

Bonus episode: Digital innovation with Kiwibank’s Ranjit Jayanandhan

In this month’s bonus episode, The Spinoff’s business editor Michael Andrew talks to Ranjit Jayanandhan, general manager of Kiwibank’s foundation tech experience hub.

In this month's bonus episode, The Spinoff’s business editor Michael Andrew talks to Ranjit Jayanandhan, general manager of Kiwibank’s foundation tech experience hub. As the person leading Kiwibank’s digital innovation journey, Ranjit has a unique perspective into how banking and fintech will change in New Zealand and the increasing role… In this month's bonus episode, The Spinoff’s business editor Michael Andrew talks to Ranjit Jayanandhan, general manager of Kiwibank’s foundation tech experience hub. As the person leading Kiwibank’s digital innovation journey, Ranjit has a unique perspective into how banking and fintech will change in New Zealand and the increasing role technology plays in the customer experience. When the Facts Change is brought to you by The Spinoff Podcast Network together with Kiwibank. Follow When the Facts Change on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast provider.

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