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Tim Norton in a scene from a promotional video produced by his company, 90 Seconds
Tim Norton in a scene from a promotional video produced by his company, 90 Seconds

ATEEDNovember 30, 2016

On the Grid: 90 Seconds’ Tim Norton on founding a global business on kiwi values

Tim Norton in a scene from a promotional video produced by his company, 90 Seconds
Tim Norton in a scene from a promotional video produced by his company, 90 Seconds

There’s a revolution underway. Deep within the Auckland Viaduct lurks the beginnings of our own tiny Silicon Valley. At GridAKL, more than 50 startups, in industries as diverse as medicine, robotics and augmented reality, are running the entrepreneurial gauntlet looking to build a high-growth business – or at least get a second funding round.

In On the Grid, a sponsored series with Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development (ATEED), we tell their stories. In this, the eighth and final instalment, Don Rowe talks to 90 Seconds founder Tim Norton.

If GridAKL is Auckland’s Silicon Valley, Tim Norton is our Steve Jobs. Founder of cloud video production firm 90 Seconds, recent recipients of more than US$7.5 million in Series A funding, Norton is a an entrepreneurial machine, unconstrained by trivial things like fatigue or the possibility of defeat.

His mind works roughly five hundred times faster than his mouth, and the speed at which he talks is a matter of physical possibility rather than mental acuity. And, in the mould of other tech luminaries, he’s as interested in acro-yoga and spiritual health as he is in pivots, mergers and brand positioning.

Speaking over Skype from his home in San Francisco, Norton exuded energy, filling my sedentary Britomart meatbody with more motivation than a bag of your finest single origin Ethiopian yirgacheffe.

Tim Norton in a scene from a promotional video produced by his company, 90 Seconds
Tim Norton in a scene from a promotional video produced by his company, 90 Seconds

Tell me about your Skype handle – thelifestyleartist – what’s that about?

It’s always been a big part of how I’ve rolled really, because I’ve kind of always seen life as an artform. I was always going to set something up around it, and I still will going forward, where I share how I live as a lifestyle artist. In terms of health and fitness, I like keeping healthy, feeling great, in good form, heaps of acro-yoga and stretching and stuff – it’s all stuff I’d normally come up with on my own, so it’s more about lifestyle art, rather than hacking or farming. It’s more about the experience of living. The way I see the mind is that you can condition it and recondition it and change and evolve, and that’s been behind everything really. That’s how I am, who I am, where I am.

It seems more holistic than the stereotypical biohacking, Silicon Valley, Tim Ferriss route.

I think it really is mate. You’re born in New Zealand – I was born in Matamata on a dairy farm – and it’s nice and spacious and natural and real. It’s the real stuff, whereas overseas you get the designed version, the manufactured version, the marketed version, and it almost makes it all look like everything is productised. As a human, nothing is productised, and certainly not life, so I feel really fortunate these days.

We’re building a global company and most people don’t have all those values. It’s just by virtue of being a Kiwi, it’s what you grow up with. Those values are deep inside of you. I can hold my own, put on a good strong image for the company and position the brand really well, build the company financially and so on, but when it comes to being a human and living your life, it’s far greater than all of that.

Living this way is a bit different, it stands out a bit more. It’s recognised as quite valuable almost – not that it’s there to be valued. People say ‘it makes you much more trustworthy, much easier to understand,’ because when they’re doing well monetarily and on a business level, they want to relate on another level, and there’s something there for them.

You were in debt when you first founded 90 Seconds, but opted to go for an early global expansion anyway rather than becoming a powerhouse in New Zealand first. What drove that decision?

There’s two bits to it. One part is personal, it directly relates to me, and then there’s a business reason as well. I don’t separate them, but it’s probably worth laying them out separately here.

Personally, I just needed to be spending time around the world, that’s where I was at in life. I was enjoying travel, but I wanted more. I thought I needed to create a business where it literally is set up in different countries. I wanted to feel fully at home in different countries. I’ve always travelled a lot but I wanted to have bases in other countries where I could turn up and have a home like I do now. I’ve got one here in San Francisco that I’ve had for three or four months, I’ve got a small local team growing with an office. I do the same in Singapore and did the same in Australia and Auckland. That’s one thing driving it.

The second thing is that when it comes to building something, if you don’t go globally early, then you’ve got to figure out what it is globally later, and it’s already hard enough as it is. The best thing I’ve found is to get out there first, put it in front of global customers and you’ll soon find out how it stacks up globally. I’m a pretty visionary dude – not to be superficial, I just am, I just see things – so then I have to think ‘well, am I going to make that reality or not? Because it’s probably going to take a long time’.

I’ve had visions before, and making a vision reality is really hard, and even if it’s a good idea it might be the wrong timing, or it might not be quite the right version of the vision that it needs to be, based on other people. You can sit there and not worry about that stuff, but I like thinking about it. You put it out there early and you start to get knocked around.

We opened up in London after about a year, not even a year, right at the very early stages. As soon as we did that you start getting that pressure from London businesses and London customers and London creatives and that worked really well, because you know the business is holding it’s own. London is a lot more international too, there are a lot of immigrants there, so you start to get international work. American’s generally show up in London before they do in New Zealand so you start to get customers from the US, and that all worked well. Then it was like ‘right, we’ve gotta get into Asia, I love time in Asia, and we better set up in Australia because it’s close by’, then we met two guys who set up in Japan, so it all happened organically. Now we’re setting up in the US and in Berlin and different parts of Asia.

I wanted to have something truly global that had Kiwi roots. Something truly global has the best chance of succeeding, and you definitely get the most learning. If I look at our team there are 13 nationalities across seven countries with six global bases, and they’re just pumped with the multicultural nature of the company. It’s part of our DNA, everybody loves that aspect of it, and you get to learn lots from it. That’s hard to beat, because now it’s a full life experience, moving around the world and all these places are home.

Do you find that brings a different range of skillsets? Travel opens the mind because you see different ways in which things can be done. Has that travel experience and interaction informed the way that you conduct that business?

It definitely does. To speak to that, that’s another key aspect to what we do. Everyone says ‘aw it’s different over there, it’s a different culture,’ but what does that really mean? Obviously there’s a lot of homogeneity there because we’re all humans, but when you get into countries and you set up teams it starts to become clear what the values are there. I love Asia for example, and you bring some of the values from Asia and it’s awesome, and you spread them around the world with 90 Seconds and it’s fantastic, it helps people become better people and they let go of some of their bad habits from one place and will be more accepting of other values. Everyone has learned from that and it’s great.

There are some amazing parts to being a Kiwi, but there are other things that are a bit of a pain in the ass, and it’d be nice if we were able to let go of some of those things. When you get some people from Singapore and Thailand and so on involved, that’s what helps smooth people over. Everyone wants to fit in with one another so they have to move it a little bit. And that’s been cool to see.

We’re about to introduce the US now, and in the US they’re very strong culturally, because some of what they’ve got – it’s hard to say it’s a real culture, but it’s certainly significant in it’s effect. I wanted to hit the US once we had some real culture, and now we’ve got some deep Asian culture, we’ve got some deep Japanese culture, and some of those cultures are really deep, date back a long way and there’s just this beauty to them in many ways including how people conduct themselves. Now that we’re hitting the US it’s good to me, because we’ve got this genuine multicultural feel.

Some of the people we’re hiring in the US are some of the more senior people in the company and they’re aware of what they’re joining and they want to be a part of that. Quite often they’re coming through Silicon Valley and they’ve been a part of companies that have gone global, and it’s hard to doubt the fact that it’s very powerful, but these individuals are looking for something different. They’re attracted to the fact that this company started in New Zealand and has bases in six countries with all these nationalities.

You brought up the fact that they like that we’re in New Zealand, and New Zealand has a strong brand, but it seems like a lot of the opportunities you secured in terms of your recent successful funding were offshore. Would you say it’s true that while New Zealand companies lean heavily on the New Zealand brand they can miss other, bigger VC funds and similar opportunities offshore?

It’s fair to say that probably is the case. I love New Zealand, I’m a Kiwi, and that’s so deep in your DNA. There’s no losing that. But it’s about what else you can put in the mix. It’s a big world out there. It’s ginormous, so you put in half a dozen countries like we have, then it becomes really attractive. In the context of that, New Zealand is a big part of 90 Seconds and people are more open to that component because they want to know how it fits. And then they see the benefits and values we have. For example we’re not a litigious society, we tend to get on and figure things out with each other. I tell them it’s not the fastest moving business environment here, but why would it be? It’s a stable country and that’s why we love it. But here I am with a VC trying to bring significant funding into a company, I need them to feel very sure that we’re global and nothing will hold us back.

But the stability is good because it means we’re trustworthy, and that if they ever want to come to New Zealand they can, and it’s good for the mind and the soul. They get into that. So it’s one of the pieces of the puzzle. You can’t oversell it, but if you get people into what the New Zealand brand really is they’ll like it. Even the people that aren’t really fussed on NZ are suddenly interested because it’s played an undeniable critical role in our global story.

Tim Norton
Tim Norton

In your negotiations with Sequoia, who are the playmakers when it comes to AirBnB and other companies of that scale, did you find that coming from a country like New Zealand where people aren’t put on pedestals helped you not to freak out?

It’s interesting eh. I’ll be completely honest, because I care so much about New Zealand succeeding. I’ve been knocked around a bit in NZ, because it happened, and I’ve learned from that, but I wouldn’t want to put other people through what I went through. It’s all good, and I’ve learned from everything, but it was a bit unnecessary. If I look at some of the countries we do business in now, they don’t do that at all. They’d actually help the person back up. Because that person is the one in the ring. They may have been knocked down, but they’re the one in the ring, so they get them back on their feet, and get them back out there for another round. New Zealand tries to keep people there. But to whose gain? I’ve hired almost 100 people now in the last five years, and I didn’t do it with a lot of support from the New Zealand side on a lot of fronts. I’m here for the bigger picture, and in the bigger picture that just doesn’t work because not everybody is going to get back up like I did.

You’ve gotta make it hard for people, I believe that, but not try and keep them down. The whole idea is to get them back up and rolling. Because we’ve gotta do something big for New Zealand here, and I’ve always had that in my heart. I want to do something big for New Zealand, and I’ve worked my ass off my whole career, so I was a bit surprised to be knocked down that much. But I took the learnings, and this time around going into these negotiations – and it’s probably why I don’t freak out now – is that I’ve lost everything before. I’ve been through the most frightening times. You’re scared, and you realise it.

But I want to go into high pressure situations and I want to enjoy them, because they are enjoyable. That’s where I like to live, a point where I’m not sure I can get something through, but I think I can. I’m not sure how, but that’s ok because I’ll figure it out in time, and I’m comfortable with it. This time around I was ready for it. I wanted to enjoy it, and I did enjoy it, going through all this really complex negotiating. Once you’re comfortable in that mode of things you get confident taking really huge risks, and that’s what I’ve done with this company.

When I went to negotiations I was really ready for it, and the whole process was exactly what I was looking for. It was really hard, and it was really challenging, and there were bits of me that almost lost it, and it’s on the edge of being truly frightening, but by this point I’ve realised that the more comfortable you can be in hard situations, the harder situations you’ll be able to navigate. I’m a human and a Kiwi, and building this global company I know there’s not many Kiwis like me. I’m not saying that to brag, there just aren’t that many Kiwis like me. I’ve developed or acquired for whatever reason attitudes and qualities that aren’t so common in New Zealand. I know how important they are globally, and therefore i go ‘well I’ve gotta build this company up and make it work.’

International travel seems so important for New Zealanders. Obviously plenty of people go on their OEs, but I’m talking about intrepid, in-depth travel. It’s just so valuable.

It is man, I really think it is. Kiwis know we need to get that stuff in our brains and that we’ll be better if we get it in. It does make a big difference because you can come to big markets like the US, and places like Singapore, where they don’t travel much. They’re in places where there are enough opportunities where you can get away without it, but you still miss something because of it. That is one of the opportunities inherent in New Zealand, you instinctively know that you’re not going to learn enough at home and you better get out there and it’s great, because that’s the truth.

A lot of people living in big cities like LA and New York are pretty focused around that area, and it’s ok for them, but I think there are a lot of cool things about a lot of different cultures. You become a more interesting and valuable person to the overall population of the world. You’re also less likely to skew what you’re offering to a smaller sector of the population because you’re aware that there’s more. I’ve travelled in South East Asia and lived in Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia for many years in my early 20s, and every time I’ve started a company from a beach in a little hut in Asia, quietly build it up, keep it all real in a nice climate with good healthy food, nice local people with good values, it’s been a good thing.

But at the same time, you guys are still in some capacity in Auckland, operating out of the Grid. Everybody I’ve spoken with mentioned what a huge influence it is having people like yourself around, people who are cracking it on a world scale. What do you get out of being around these smaller startups?

Everyone is at a different point on the journey.The world is changing hugely, and I see these big macro things like the number of people and the skills they’ve got growing in different countries, and I look at their cost structure. New Zealand’s cost structure, the price of houses and mortgages and so on, make me think ‘Shit!, it’s gonna hurt’. This is not a small thing, it’s going to hurt, because why would someone with the same skills and qualifications in a country with a third of the mortgage price, why would they not get the job in the future? It’s going to be tough.

I’m really disappointed in some of the ways the country is run in that area. I’m disappointed with the way the banking sector is structured, and the rise of the offshore owners. I’m disappointed that it’s easy to build your wealth in property with non-value creating assets. It’s not new, I’ve been disappointed in that since I knew it was happening in my very early 20’s. Still am today. I’m trying to build myself up to have more influence and probably success that gives me better recognition amongst some of those people making those decisions, even in a small way, so that I can at least start to communicate with them a bit better. They won’t say ‘you’re just a hippy on the side of the road who doesn’t have any money.’ Now I can say ‘Well I have got millions of dollars, so what’s up? Can’t we have a conversation around this? It’s not working.’

So because of that, I look at all the humans around the Grid and the other communities like BizDojo and the other entrepreneurial communities where I’ve been at different points in the curve, and, like I said, I’ve been knocked down too much sometimes I think, so one job for me is to be in there and not let that happen when I’m around. If I’m around, it’s not going to happen. If I can see someone who’s worked their ass off, then the job is to help nurture those people, because they’re trying, and that effort will prevail if it’s supported. That’s who I support first and foremost, people who go hard. They’re making it for themselves, and they deserve to know that there’s someone else around, especially if they can see that we’re way further down the curve, and then my job is real clear, it’s to show them the direct line between me and them. Whether you take the same path or not is irrelevant, there’s a straight line all the way back to exactly where you are, and we’re the same. If you can see the same thing you can get to anywhere I am, and further.

I really want to help other people. But helping other people is not easy – I mean to really help them. In order to do that I’ve gotta generate a significant success, that’s what it has to be, where people can go ‘shit, he’s broken through several ceilings there, now we want to know what he really thinks,’ because I’m never gonna give away paper advice. I never do. I’m only going to do it if I genuinely believe it can help, and if it’s not then there’s no point. It’s not self-serving, there’s nothing in it for me, I’m already doing fine, I don’t need to give advice, and I don’t want any money for it, but the whole idea here is let’s get together, get better at doing this, and create more success for us all.

You can probably hear in me quite a lot of conviction. I’m keeping it calm and cool too though because I’m playing a long term game here. I love seeing the community in New Zealand having a go, that’s what it’s all about, even like 10 years ago you didn’t have that many people hovering in the same places. Now it’s getting better, we have these spaces set up, BizDojo has done a cracker of that, the Grid’s awesome, it’s just an awesome space, it’s got a bit of heaving to it, and it makes me feel like I’m home when I’m in that environment. I love being around that.

GridAKL is Auckland’s innovation precinct, located in Wynyard Quarter – powered by ATEED and run by BizDojo. New spaces are leasing soon – click here to find out more.

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arturo-main

ATEEDNovember 23, 2016

On the Grid: Printing the universe to teach blind people

arturo-main

There’s a revolution underway. Deep within the Auckland Viaduct lurks the beginnings of our own tiny Silicon Valley. At GridAKL, more than 50 startups, in industries as diverse as medicine, robotics and augmented reality, are running the entrepreneurial gauntlet looking to build a high-growth business – or at least get a second funding round.

In On the Grid, a sponsored series with Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development (ATEED), we tell their stories. In this, the sixth instalment, Tactile Astronomy co-founder Arturo Pelayo.

Despite the proliferation of high resolution cameras and powerful post-processing software, some photographers continue to shoot in black and white, producing emotive and iconic imagery without a single colour. At times, rules and limitations spark a shift in perspective which results in enhanced, not reduced, creativity and efficacy.

Co-founder of Tactile Astronomy, a firm developing 3D printed resources to teach astronomy to the blind, Arturo Pelayo experiments with such a philosophy. Rather than hacking existing systems for accessibility purposes, Pelayo demands his developers design for accessibility first, and the billion people around the world with accessibility needs, reasoning that a minimum viable product provides a foundation on which the rest of the user base can operate.

But Pelayo faces challenges. Operating in the precarious social enterprise space, funding Tactile Astronomy has been a series of frustrations, with Pelayo blaming an attitude towards risk incongruous with the national number 8 mentality.

arturo-main
TACTILE ASTRONOMY FOUNDER ARTURO PELAYO. PHOTO: RAE-DAWN MARTIN

That sounds like a Spanish accent. What’s your background? Where did you study?

I went to school in the United States and studied Physics. I’m originally from Mexico but I left when I was 17 and I’ve been living abroad for half of my life now. Basically I’ve been always interested in innovation and technology. About five years ago I went to Singularity University and I began my career in innovation and consulting – futurist thinking and that sort of thing. A part of that has always been for me about asking how do you find intersections between the human connection, the technology connection and how can you create a new reality based on that? A lot of people think the future is ahead of us, but I think it’s here now in pockets. We have pockets of the future, and one tends to dominate and that’s what becomes the future. It’s not that it’s a new idea that will eventually happen, it’s what dominates.

So I think of this project as a way to help begin a conversation in New Zealand around digital fabrication, and what it means to have local fabrication. If you can print the moon you can print the universe and you can also print a car or anything else. Local manufacturing can have a boom, and I think it will because you don’t need to have a massive supply chain to get prints delivered. People always say New Zealand is too far away, too remote, so things cannot get here, but things don’t need to get here. You can just print them. I think this project brings out the social impact angle, if you want to call it that, it has an approach around a new medium for students, be it blind or not.

Why blind students?

The blind student part is the minimum viable product. It’s who we interact with to get the best technology out. Rather than have a trickle-down approach that we then hack to work for accessibility, we start with accessibility and it will work for everybody else. We care about the texture, we care about how it feels, and we can worry about the colours later. That’s the intent, creating as a whole accessibility technology and do it with a frame of inclusion.

One of the things with the project is how can we teach astronomy to blind children as a start for any other science field, or any other artifact. We’re in conversation with the Auckland Museum and with Te Papa, I’m one of the mentors for an innovation accelerator that they have. It’s mostly around how do we categorise things together? What’s the metadata of objects? How do museums make materials? And how can we make it easier for teachers in New Zealand, and around the world, who have blind students or students with low vision have a more inclusive classroom experience? How can we make sure that students get the most impactful education with the human resource that they have, which is the most expensive part that the government has already paid for. How can you make life easier for the teacher?

My customer is the blind student, of course, but it really is the teacher. Because, if you think of it from an efficiency perspective, each teacher is working in isolation making a model for the student that is next to them, replicate that across the country, and then at the end of every week you throw away these models. That to me is highly inefficient. When you’re born digital that doesn’t make sense, because you think what if one single teacher made a really good model, we did a volumetric capture, and then everyone else in the country can just print that one. Then you don’t need to do 30 or 50 of each, you just get one really good one. You start to build up a library of things to download and print.

It’s interesting that the proliferation of 3D printing technology means that one idea can be printed in 100 locations around the world, instantaneously.

Exactly, and it’s not just about manufacturing and production and sales of goods and services, but it should really start in the classroom. We’re not designing for blind people, we’re designing with blind people. That ‘with’ takes a lot of work.

We started with Slack, and we’ve moved very quickly to tools that are open source. We’re working with seven developers and my challenge to them was ‘I would like a blind person to work with us on all phases.’ That means getting Slack to work with voice. You command everything with your voice. That’s become a part of the inclusion journey. Yes, we’re doing this initially for blind students with the specific topic of astronomy, but all the inclusion exercises that have happened before are very important because you need to listen to your customer.

The guys from 90 Seconds are sponsoring our videos, so all of the story telling, visual and otherwise, is important. They’re also starting a practice around VR which is very curious for them around blind people, because blind people have a very different spacial relationship. Even us, from a developer perspective – when you look at machine learning and artificial intelligence algorithms, how we design spacial relationships, blind people get it straight away and it’s for us to catch up.

The headline thing for me is not a product about disability, I don’t think disability exists. Accessibility is a word that is more progressive, but what I really think is happening when you think of digital manufacturing, 3D printing, robotics, mechatronics, that convergence of bio info and nano, is augmentation. You’re going to have people who can change their arm and they can have a flamethrower if they want, because it’s fit for the job and they can do it. You have people in the US at MIT that have 12 pairs of legs – if they want to go climbing, they put their climbing legs on. So it changes our mentality as plain old humans, born with bones and tissue.

What does it mean to create a space that is not only a makerspace for blind people but a makerspace for augmented humans? That really changes your perspective on things, and we should be thinking about that. Pockets of the future already exist. There are plants in South Korea building these huge ships, and all of the workers are wearing exoskeletons that can help them lift 300kg pieces of metal to weld, and by the way they weld them with their hands because there’s a welding device on their exoskeleton. So that is already happening. It’s not only for the elderly who fell down the stairs and need an exoskeleton, those are not going to be your grandparents, it’s going to be us. We’re getting to a point where we’re going to be those biomechanical grandparents.

VIDEO: TACTILE ASTRONOMY / 90 SECONDS

So you’re all in on the transcendence of the flesh?

I think it’s happening, and like I said, it’s not that there’s going to be an ‘on’ switch, I think that you’re going to see a lot of pockets where it’s going to become more prevalent, and we should aspire to that. We have a legacy of 200 years of war, where if you have a landmine you have a lot of children losing their limbs. What happens to them? It’s not going to be something that stops because war ends, there’s millions of landmines, unexploded ordnance, around the world. Asia has some of the highest rates of people missing limbs because of it. We need to think about it.

If you look at any accessibility need for any previously known disability, a seventh of the world, a billion people, you have a market of a billion people that you should serve. You don’t need a billion dollar market, if you can sell one thing worth a dollar and a billion people buy it, it’s the same effect.

Is that why you decided on the education space? There’s already this inclusion rather than something like gaming or entertainment as the platform.

What I found is that in two years nobody has said that it’s a bad idea to teach astronomy to blind people, because they understand the human, emotional connection. When you start with that, then it becomes easier to open Pandora’s Box a little wider. If you start with ‘robots will take your job’, a real dystopian future, people switch off. But if you tell them ‘I’d like to make your job easier, not to remove you from the role, but actually to enhance your role,’ then they’re a lot more receptive.

What advantage does teaching with a tactile experience offer over audio?

So we are doing a few things. For a blind person you need a kinesthetic approach. From the testing we’ve done with some of the volunteers – and it’s been difficult to get access to them – the advantage is the spacial relationship of an object. They can understand the trajectory if I show them a crater and then a crater with a mount and then a moon covered in craters, they follow along. They can scale it out in their mind. It’s very interesting.

They’re regularly building an entire model of the world in their minds anyway, right?

I think it’s quite interesting. We all have a visual cortex. It’s there and activated even if you can’t see. You get a different reaction from students who have gone blind, rather than being born blind, because they have seen at some point. You get the memory trigger and you get the visual cortex. But for blind students they still get that reaction.

If you’re blind you only get audio books or raised braille paper. 3D printing might not totally replace them, but it’s another medium. It’s another medium that’s becoming price-competitive, very distributed. In New Zealand there are about 12,000 people who are blind, and of those 12,000 about 2500 live in the greater Auckland area. That’s important because if you think of the blind resource centre for those students, where you’d find any material you would need, there’s only one in the country. For 4.5 million people, there’s just one. There are more McDonald’s in New Zealand than that. There are more of a whole lot of things. When you think of that, when you think that you can print anything, anywhere, any time, your mentality has to shift from ‘we need more blind schools and resource centres’ to ‘Yes, maybe we can work on the 3D printers that are already distributed around the country and increase the value proposition.”

The audible part then converges on the 3D printing. We created these parts that also have beacons on them. They have a micro computer attached to the back of the plate, and there are buttons that trigger audio narration. Things that you would associate with museum exhibits – touch a button and things talk to you – we’re at a point where you can build something like that for $20. We’re trying to build that at scale, so we need to get cheaper even than that, and we’re working with a bunch of developers around what it means to have objects that you can print, and how do we catalogue them in a way that any museum could print and put on display? We’re working with the Auckland museum on that. They built an API around that. For us it’s celebrating open source and we’re also celebrating accessibility.

Isn’t it difficult to make money if everything is free and open?

It’s a different value ecosystem. My view is that I’m starting with a billion people. There are a billion people with accessibility needs. Anyone can make them but it really matters what your ethos is coming into the project. If you operate from an approach focused on money, this is not for you. Your return may take a while. You’re going to be looking at Excel tables for a long time. But if your currency is impact then you are actually going to do the opposite and you’re going to tell all of your potential competitors, ‘can we just agree on building this?’

Then you can build kits, and you can sell the kits. The Kickstarter approach does that. Any part that we use can be flashed so that the memory can be erased and it can be used for other stuff. It’s more of an approach taken from the maker movement, which is having kits you can build and configure for one application, but you could also do any other thing. When you’re bored with it you should be able to take it apart, figure out how it works and come up with something new.

There’s obviously great potential there. If you consider the original maker kits, imagine how many kids moved into careers in science because of it.

Exactly, and to me that’s the most interesting thing. How do you create that spark? I cannot design this as if I’m going to print the moon so that someone has an ‘a ha!’ moment and ten years later they become a scientist, but if you create enough interactions and interventions…. And that’s the thing with 3D printing. Braille has been with us for a very long time, and the dominant medium for braille has always been text. But what happens in a world of augmented and virtual reality is that a lot of these models that you can print can also be used in AR and VR.

What a lot of people forget is that augmented reality and virtual reality, those acronyms, do not say this is limited to a visual display. When you’re augmenting reality it’s all of your senses: temperatures, surfaces that change temperature, surfaces that morph, sense, it’s a whole lot of synesthesia. You have to use all of your senses, and I think that’s what this project starts putting the foot in the door to say ‘actually, don’t focus on the graphic user interface,’ and that’s what has gotten a lot of the developers interested.

To give you an example, with this project we begin with 3D printed parts and we thought ‘ok we need something to augment learning’ so we had the beacons. Now we’re moving towards having an AI assistant. I would really like having a 3D printer you could talk to and have it print anything you need. But how do we build from where we are to that? We’re getting there. There are a lot of very passionate people in New Zealand who would like to have a challenge and they’ve been working on it. The condition from their end, and from mine, is that it must be open source so that anybody can pick up the work if I cannot commit more time later.

That’s a generous proposition.

Generosity is a big enabler for this project, and it’s also why it’s taken three years. I cannot ask somebody who has an 8-5 job and a family and so on to commit a lot on a tight deadline. You have to create a distributed workforce and you need more than one person looking at it.

Recently I told a designer, “I’ve got a Christmas challenge for you,” because I’ve learned to give longer deadlines. I said “Can you build an MMORPG for blind people?” And he just went “I’m a game developer, I know how to do that, but everything is visual. Everything I think about and know how to code is visual,” and I said “Exactly.”

That motivates people. In my traditional job I develop training programmes, and the software that I use is incredibly visual. Everything is visual. So when you shift the frame of reference, it changes what you would consider as best practice. It’s not like blind people are new, right? We’ve had blind people for the whole of human history. So how do we make sure that we design for everybody? What I always get is a big dose of empathy. We’ve done Skype interviews with a few of our friends in the US who are blind, and they have access to Facebook. Some are blind and some are blind deaf, andbraille is how they interact with us, but it was very interesting to hear the amount of sport and inclusion activities that they are involved with. They go skiing! Blind skiing. I’m so risk averse that I don’t jump off the bridge here to swim, but there are blind people who love skiing. That immediately puts you in a place where you realise you’ve been raised thinking that’s not possible for them, therefore they can’t do it, and you realise you need to open your mind a little.

It’s an interesting philosophy for creation, right? Limitations breed innovation.

Take the cameras that self-driving cars use. The sensor has come down in price from around $2 million to around $35. You can put it in a phone. By the time you have your iPhone 8, you’re going to have this sensor, and what it does is real-time obstacle avoidance. A blind person won’t need a cane anymore, their assistant will be able to tell them stop, move, left, right, navigate around this object and so on, because it creates a 3D model of your relationship to space.

So it actually makes sense for a blind person to wear a helmet or AR/VR glasses, because if you have all of your 12+ sensors, you’re better off than with a cane.

This project is not about having parity, it’s not about having the same ability, or a hack, it’s about augmentation. You’re going to have 15 different new sensors feeding you data to help spacial relationships and that’s the future of biology, electrical engineering, and miniaturisation.

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OUTSIDE THE GRIDAKL TECHCAFE, AUCKLAND VIADUCT. PHOTO: RAE-DAWN MARTIN

Do these ideas get you out of bed?

It gives me motivation but the problem that I run into is how do you find the drive? Do you find it or do you make it? I’ve done both. There are people that immediately get it, they catch that spark, and they’re super keen to work on a project. They start thinking in a new way, about how to code, how to do any type of project. At the same time, it’s very hard to sell an analogy.

A year ago at MIT I was talking to Laurene Powell Jobs, Steve Jobs’ wife, and her first reaction to my idea was ‘how do you even begin to teach astronomy to blind people?’ so part of my struggle and hustle is to create those experiences and to say ‘here it is, play with it,’ and then to extrapolate out what I intend to do.

But also it’s difficult, particularly in New Zealand, where a lot of medium to large companies have specific charities that they give money to, and it’s almost like a blind horse, ‘We give to KidsCan, we give to this other charity’, which is great, everybody needs the money, but there’s no flexibility around ‘can we build an R&D project for this area’. It happened with the blind school. I said “I want to do this, I don’t know how, can we give it a try?” It’s the Callaghan approach – Mr Callaghan that is, not necessarily Callaghan Innovation.

So that’s the challenge, funding the thing. How are you going to do that?

It’s getting the buy-in and to me, it’s not charity. This is a billion customers. You’re creating an impact and if your currency is impact your value proposition changes, because yes you can apply it to blind people, but picking up something that talks to you and that you can interact with is applicable to, for example, any retail experience you have. You can put money towards the social impact approach because you care, but you can also get a benefit on the other end.

A friend of mine says I live in the time traveler’s dilemma. He says I’m not from the present, but I don’t think that’s the truth. I’m just not a salesman, and that’s a gap in my skills, convincing people this is a good thing that should exist. With some of the people and potential donors that I’ve seen, and even traditional funding sources like the Blind School, there’s a lot of people that are afraid of the future. There’s fear of the unknown, and how people react to it can be cumbersome. It’s difficult to fathom sometimes why they react the way that they do. Because I’m an independent person, and I’m not attached to an acronym, I’m seen as the crazy weird guy coming up with stuff that’s just spinning, but there’s a lot interesting markers that are popping up. I think we need that, and I think that’s the purpose of a Callaghan. “Let’s put $100,000 at this idea that even if it’s not commercially viable, it’s an accessibility technology that has helped locally.” There’s nothing wrong with that, as opposed to a product that flops or a company that goes to another country.

It’s about attitude to risk, then?

The appetite for risk in New Zealand is scarce. I’m going to get in trouble for this, but what I’ve been told by a lot of nonprofits and people who donate is that they want something that’s in a market, as ‘off the shelf’ as possible, and that has been proven somewhere else to be working and to not have any risk. That’s not innovation. I’ve been told specifically ‘We’re a fast follower and we’ll invest fully once we see proof of it existing in a market, it being bought and adapted’. You see the fast follower approach, which is ok but it makes you a commodity market and you will always be buying something. I think that’s counter to the number 8 mentality, which is strange because when I came to New Zealand 4 years ago it was all about number 8 wire, we can do it ourselves. But the funding sources are incredibly risk averse and I have that clash.

When you hear about New Zealand you hear about people making stuff in their garage. You hear it over and over, so I thought I’ll buy into that, I’ll commit, I’ll move into the country, but then you get here and you get ‘We’re not going to put in money because you need to not be risky, and you’re not established.’

Even looking at funding sources from New Zealand arts funding, 3D printing is not an art. Carving is an art. Making jewellery is an art. Doing something in a 3D printer, because it used technology – this is the actual justification that I got on the phone – because it’s a 3D printer it’s not possibly art.

So I don’t want to get too negative, it’s not that people need to get out more, but we need to take that Kiwi OE experience and apply it. We’re not remote anymore, we’re .6 milliseconds from the world. I’m in New Zealand, I’m a resident, I’ll be a citizen next year, and I want to create an impact. When you operate from a perspective of impact, it’s changes everything.

GridAKL is Auckland’s innovation precinct, located in Wynyard Quarter – powered by ATEED and run by BizDojo. New spaces are leasing soon – click here to find out more.