Though he may look the archetypal National Party man, Greg Fleming is anything but: the first-term Maungakiekie MP is brimming with unexpected quirks. Firstly, there’s his ability to link arms across the House. This term, he’s teamed up with Labour MP Camilla Belich to pass the Modern Slavery Bill and shown support at a pro-Palestine forum at the invite of his Green Party friend Steve Abel. Secondly, there’s the way in which Fleming leans on his near-fluency in te reo Māori to guide his passage through the halls of power. I’ve never before considered revoking my own Māori card and handing it over to a 55-year-old Pākehā man in parliament’s pub, but there’s a first time for everything.

There was a point when this Masterton-born boy from a humble Christian background “wouldn’t have even used ‘kia ora'”, but that’s ancient history now. Fleming’s reo journey began in 2015, when he took over as head of nonprofit organisation The Parenting Place following a long stretch at the conservative think tank Maxim Institute, which he co-founded in 2001. Fleming wanted his close friend Te Waka McLeod to join him in his new gig, but leaving her hometown gave McLeod pause; she felt she couldn’t be Māori if she moved to Auckland to work with Fleming in the same way she could be Māori in Taranaki.

So, Fleming figured, why not make it a bilingual workplace? It was a gradual process; nine months of mihi, karakia and community classes passed before he finally felt like he could swallow that nervous lump in his throat and speak with confidence. Learning reo Māori changed the way the workplace functioned, but Fleming says it also sparked a deep personal change in himself and his colleagues. “It changed my understanding of this land, our history, the relationship between us people and the challenges we face today,” Fleming says. “It started to expand my imagination around what’s possible.”

Fleming keeps his reo sharp largely through spiritual practice: he switched to a Māori Anglican church a number of years ago (which is where he first met his now-colleague Tama Potaka) and worships entirely in te reo. He gets giddy when recounting a recent hour-long kōrero with former Te Pāti Māori MP Te Ururoa Flavell, and beams with pride at the fact this his son Toby, who is one of five children, now works as a sports commentator at Whakaata Māori and likes to correct his father on his reo.

For Fleming, one of the dullest parts of parliamentary life are the hours and hours of House duty he’s expected to do. He struggles to ward off the jaded feeling that the debates are all about “changing the world one insult at a time”. It took him a long time to feel comfortable with the idea of being a parliamentarian (“I’m a person who trades in hope”), but being able to kōrero Māori inside and outside the House helps Fleming to “settle my wairua in this place”.

“If I can hold my frustration, work through it, build relationships and skills and get re-elected, then I might get the opportunity to contribute to what I think is the biggest challenge facing us as a country, which is who we are,” Fleming says. “Even bigger than the economy – can I say this as a National MP? – is this question of identity: who are we as New Zealanders, and what is the relationship between a Māori worldview and this House?”

As the MP for Maungakiekie, Fleming represents a marginal seat. If he manages to stick around long enough, he would love for the Māori Affairs select committee he currently serves on to one day conduct most of its business in te reo Māori. “Maybe alongside that is for the other committees to start incorporating tikanga Māori,” Fleming suggests. “Why not have this whole place become totally bilingual?” In the same time frame, Fleming hopes he could try his hand at being treaty negotiations minister.

For now, he’s figuring out what it means to be an MP. Just before he left his office to grab a drink with me, he had shot off a reply to an email – an angry letter regarding the government’s work in conservation – which had been sitting in his inbox a few too many days. It’s obvious the contents of that email are still bugging him an hour and a drink later; Fleming admits that one of his most “unbearable feelings” is having his mana trampled.

“Don’t take your whakarāpoto [summary] of your favourite worst hits of this government, package them altogether and go, ‘that’s who you are, Greg Fleming,'” he says. “[Some weeks] I have to give myself a little talking to. Why am I here? Because I want to contribute to the long-term relationships that are defining who we are in Aotearoa.”

THE SPINOFF PUB Q+A

How much should a pint cost?

Well, here [at Pint of Order] it’s $8, right? Wouldn’t it be brilliant if it was like that everywhere? But maybe that would be the end of hospitality sector.

Do you have a karaoke go-to?

I have only ever sung karaoke once – actually, there was one time I sang ‘Blueberry Hill’ [by Fats Domino] in a pub in Methven when I was at university on a ski trip. But anyway, the last time I have vivid memories of doing karaoke was last April in Taiwan. I went with a group of MPs and I sang Rod Stewart’s ‘I Don’t to Talk About It’.

Favourite place to get a drink in Aotearoa?

Probably the Green Lane Gastro Pub. Although I’m starting to get a new favourite: the Springs Tavern on Captain Springs Road in Onehunga. It opened about a year and a half ago in the middle of an industrial area, and I’ve got to admit, they had real trouble getting their liquor license – there was a bunch of us that helped them get it.

But almost every time you go in there, it’s just absolutely pumping. They’ve got a huge outdoor area, massive sports screens and really cool staff. I was there last Saturday after door knocking, watching the last part of the All Whites on one screen and the Warriors about to start on another. It was awesome.

Which three MPs would be on your pub quiz team?

One of them has to be Goldie, he’d be covering history and anything to do with the arts. Tama [Potaka], because that covers geography and almost anything in New Zealand, and between the two of them you’d have the standard politics [knowledge] coming through. The other person you could have is Steve Abel – Steve’s a good mate of mine.

Which MP from across the aisle would you most like to share a drink with?

Camilla and I had dinner together on Monday night, just talking about our bill and getting advice on another private bill. She’s super smart and I enjoy her a lot. [Green MP] Teanau Tuiono is awesome and I’ve really enjoyed [Labour’s] Greg O’Connor – he and I have been on the petitions committee. I’m going to miss him a lot.

Is there an alcohol-related law you would like to change?

I think I would like a standard measure for a pint. See, when you order a pint, you don’t know if you’re getting 440mls or 700mls. And while I’m at it, a standardised measure for a regular flat white as well.

What’s a policy area we’ve been nursing without finishing the glass?

Obviously, the only bill I’ve got before the House is this modern slavery one. I want to get that through, but we still need better resourcing and coordination for the identification and support of this kind of modern slavery in New Zealand. Because it’s happening to thousands; one analysis [showed there were] up to 8,000 people [affected] in New Zealand. There’s a combination of law changes that are needed, but more than that there’s actual policy that needs to be affected, and that’s something I’d love to work on, because if with get that right, it completes the full picture.

What qualities make a good drinking partner?

When I’m drinking, I like to be with someone who’s just cracking jokes the whole time. I’ve got a couple of friends like that, someone like [commerce and consumer affairs minister] Cameron Brewer. I love the fact that with Cameron, you just can’t have a serious conversation.

Have you ever had a Schnapps election moment where you regretted your political instinct?

I think I’m still too early in my career… Right now, I still don’t trust my political compass. But when I finally do get to the point of trusting it, I’m sure it will let me down.

Read more OMPOP interviews here.