Melissa Lee in 2020 (Photo by Hagen Hopkins/Getty Images)

MediaMarch 4, 2024

Turns out Melissa Lee did give a one-on-one interview about Newshub after all

Duncan Greive

Founder

Stewart Sowman-Lund

The Bulletin editor

Melissa Lee in 2020 (Photo by Hagen Hopkins/Getty Images)

The broadcasting minister has been accused of not giving interviews since last week’s news about the impending closure of Newshub. That’s not entirely true – Lee spoke to The Spinoff’s Duncan Greive on Wednesday evening. Here’s what she said.

Melissa Lee has a lot on her plate right now. The broadcasting minister’s only been in the job since November and is now being called on to save the entire media industry.

Last week’s Newshub news pushed Lee into the spotlight in a way she probably hasn’t experienced yet. It was widely observed that she floundered on the day, appearing glib and cold as she reacted to the news that about 300 people, including many of the country’s top journalists, were soon to be out of work.

In the days since, we’ve heard less and less from Lee on the subject. While she has fronted journalists on parliament’s black and white tiles, and did face questions from Labour’s Reuben Davidson in question time on Thursday, she has otherwise been largely absent from the conversation around Newshub. She didn’t, for example, turn up on RNZ’s Mediawatch over the weekend, nor did she make any appearances on radio or television this morning. Labour’s Willie Jackson, the former broadcasting minister, told The Spinoff that Lee had been “missing in action”, adding today to RNZ that “in this industry’s darkest hour, the minister is nowhere to be seen”.

He continued: “No interview with you, no interview with anyone.”

We can expect to hear more from Lee this week, as it’s reported she will bring to cabinet today suggested pathways for supporting the New Zealand media. We might hear more about this at Christopher Luxon’s weekly post-cabinet press conference this afternoon.

In the meantime, it turns out Lee did give at least one interview on the Newshub situation and the state of our media before the weekend: with The Spinoff’s Duncan Greive. In it, she appeared more sympathetic to the plight of the media and the potential job losses at Three. She was also less derisive of proposed efforts to assist media outlets, like the former government’s Fair Digital Media Bargaining Bill, and signalled that she was considering other options.

As is common practice, only parts of Lee’s interview were used last week in a piece by Greive about the Newshub closure. But given she’s made so few other public statements on the matter, here’s the whole thing (briefly edited for clarity).

– Stewart Sowman-Lund

Duncan Greive: Was there any consideration given to trying to forestall [the closure] or see if there were another path that could be taken that could lead to Newshub or Three surviving in the local marketplace?

Melissa Lee: To tell you the truth, it was a shock for me too having to come to terms with how this was going to be received by the staffers. [That] was very high on my mind… I had a conversation with the prime minister’s press secretary and I had a conversation with the chief of staff. I didn’t actually have a conversation with the prime minister until this morning [Wednesday]. So it was actually more about concern for the staff, concern for what it would actually mean for Newshub, it was just that. So yeah, I’m still processing it.

DG: I can imagine. One thing that sort of stuck out to me is that the Newshub press gallery team is obviously such a big part of their identity and a big part of the gallery. Does it give you any disquiet as a longtime MP that in terms of the sort of big mainstream television news, there will only be a government owned channel after June if the proposal goes through?

ML: Well, I think, when you actually talk in terms of television there’s only going to be one television as in mainstream. I mean, there’s also Sky. But, I think more and more, the media landscape is actually changing and I think that’s what I actually said when I was stopped at the black and white tiles as I was heading into the house. It’s not just television… actually radio is doing video, as well as newspapers are doing video. Everything is actually becoming a more multimedia platform.

And everyone’s going online, and actually becoming more digital. I think that is the signal that perhaps we are behind the times… I think this is not just a New Zealand problem, but it’s a global problem that the media is actually facing. And, you know, in terms of plurality, I have to say that I’m actually quite happy with the plurality we’ve got. We’ve got great journalists at many different media companies who actually do a great job. As an MP, I may not sometimes like the kind of interviews that I get, or how it’s actually portrayed sometimes, but I think they do a fantastic job. And I just hope that the public supports the media that we have. I think… there’s been some issues in terms of the PIJF [the Public Interest Journalism Fund] and how that actually turned the media into so-called “not the trustworthy types”. And I think that needs to be something that the media needs to navigate as well. And, yeah, I feel for the people who got the news [on Wednesday], it must be devastating for them.

DG: Yeah, I agree. You say that you hope that people support the media we have, but isn’t that sort of part of the problem? Historically, they didn’t need to, advertisers supported the media we have, including government advertisers. But that is the big thing that’s changed. Does this give you any pause in terms of the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill, in terms of introducing another mechanism to support the production of news?

ML: Glen [Kyne, Warner Bros Discovery boss] also told me that the Fair Digital Media Bargaining Bill would have made no difference to their decisions. So it’s a bit too late for Newshub, I think. I’m not going to comment about that, because I already said in opposition [that] I oppose the bill, because I didn’t think it would actually do what apparently the bill is supposed to do.

But I didn’t stop the bill, because I thought that it needed to go through a proper select committee process. And I’m waiting for the results of the select committee process, and I will actually consider it after the select committee process has actually finished.

But, when I was stopped a couple of weeks ago, by the media, they asked me, do you support the bill in its current form? I said, “No, I don’t, because I don’t believe that it can produce what people think it will.” So, you know, I will have to think about how it can actually be amended, potentially, if it does go through. I’m also trying to find some other way that we could potentially help the media, but you know, it’s not something that can be drummed up overnight.

DG: I think there are some criticisms of the bill which seem fair. But if not the bill, then what? Have you seen any other mechanisms for supporting the media that don’t introduce further complications, like the PIJF, or similar?

ML: That’s what I’m looking at. I haven’t got an answer yet. If I had an answer, I might have announced it. I am looking at options. And I mean, there’s always options. But in terms of the bill, look, I mean, it doesn’t include AI. And Stuff has been quite prominent in their criticism of how AI has been scraping their news. And the bill doesn’t include that. I mean, you know, if anything that should potentially be included.

Anyway, there’s quite a few things… The bill’s not perfect. But I’m not criticising. As I said, I will hear what the select committee comes back with, and I will make a decision after that.

DG: Just one more question. But I wondered if you could, beyond the thoughts for the journalists and their jobs, offer a recollection or a sort of requiem for Newshub, in terms of your experience of it, your interactions with it, your sense of what it was as an organisation.

ML: There are still quite a few weeks of consultation that the company is actually going through, I don’t know where that’s actually going to land… I’ve always enjoyed Newshub, I think they are fair and they are tough. We have great journalists working there. My heart goes out to them. Their future is uncertain, and I feel for them.

But that also brings a flashback to, I think in 1990, and I think it might have been the honourable Maurice Williamson, who actually made it possible for an overseas entity to buy TV3, otherwise it would have gone belly up back then I think.

Keep going!

Image: Tina Tiller

MediaMarch 4, 2024

Brownlee bars student journalists from parliament press gallery

Stewart Sowman-Lund

The Bulletin editor

Image: Tina Tiller

Speaker of the house Gerry Brownlee revoked the press pass for the Aotearoa Student Press Association last week, leaving affected journalists baffled as to why. Stewart Sowman-Lund reports.

Student journalists will be missing from parliament’s press gallery for the foreseeable future, owing to a decision by speaker of the house Gerry Brownlee.

For the past two decades, student journalists under the umbrella of the Aotearoa Student Press Association have had accredited entry to the press gallery – parliament’s office of political journalists – allowing them direct access to government and opposition MPs.

The Aotearoa Student Press Association (ASPA) represents eight student newspapers from around the country, including Craccum (University of Auckland), Critic Te Ārohi (University of Otago) and Salient (Victoria University of Wellington).

But on Tuesday last week, the group was informed its parliamentary access had been cancelled.

Salient editor Phoebe Robertson said the decision by the speaker was made after ASPA asked for the name of the journalist holding the ASPA press pass to be updated to that of a new staff member.

It should have been a “really standard process”, said Robertson, but ultimately resulted in the accreditation being cancelled.

“We don’t know why they’ve done it, they haven’t given us any information,” she said. “We messaged… about a month ago to change the name on the pass, we hadn’t heard back so we followed up on Tuesday and were told it had been denied by the speaker’s office.”

Robertson said the decision was outrageous. “Salient holds the only press pass on behalf of all the student journals, so the revoking of this press pass has basically cut all of the student media off from parliament,” she told The Spinoff.

“The thing about student media is it has such a different voice and such a different tone from all of the other media that’s going out because we put students at our forefronts. Student media doesn’t mean students are producing the media, it means media produced for students which I think is something people get wrong quite a bit.”

In emails seen by The Spinoff, senior leaders from within the press gallery also appeared confused by the move, telling Salient they were “pushing back” on the decision. “In the meantime, if you’re coming into parliament you’ll have to sign in at reception I’m afraid,” said one.

National minister and leader of the house Chris Bishop confirmed to The Spinoff that he was also seeking information from the speaker’s office about what had happened after being approached by Salient.

Gerry Brownlee (Image: Getty Images/Tina Tiller)

The speaker’s office did not respond to The Spinoff’s request for comment, but Brownlee told NZME that student journalists don’t come to parliament often enough to warrant bypassing security measures by using a swipe card.

He said he was currently working through a review of who had swipe-card access to parliament, and hadn’t said a “blanket no” to ASPA, just that at the moment he wasn’t issuing any access cards.

In an effort to have the decision overturned, all ASPA media outlets, and the presidents of several university student associations, have co-signed an open letter to Brownlee. It has also been backed by Victoria University of Wellington.

In it, the speaker was urged to reconsider his decision to revoke the press pass and provide “formal justification” as to why the decision was made in the first place. “We are deeply troubled by the implications this decision has for all student media,” the letter, seen by The Spinoff, reads.

“The ASPA press pass has been held by Salient (on behalf of ASPA) for almost 20 years, allowing us to cover important political events and have access to government officials. The pass has been an invaluable tool for us as student journalists, providing us with the opportunity to participate in political discussions and decisions that directly affect our generation.”

Brownlee was told that the “lack of reasoning” for the decision was both “concerning and disrespectful” to the student media outlets.

“Revoking this press pass not only undermines Salient as a magazine, but also all student magazines across the country. It is a direct attack on our ability to engage in meaningful journalism and provide students with information that is relevant and accessible to them,” the letter continued.

“The timing … coincides with the news that Newshub is shutting down, greatly reducing the number of journalists permitted in parliament. This endangers democracy as there will be fewer reporters available to hold politicians accountable.”

The debating chamber at parliament. Photo: Parliament.nz

Brownlee was told that he was “silencing” student reporters by denying them entry to parliament and the ability to “fulfil our role as watchdogs of democracy”.

Green MP and leadership hopeful Chlöe Swarbrick is a former student journalist herself, having spent several years at Auckland University’s radio station 95bFM. She told The Spinoff the decision by the speaker concerned her.

“I think we all know in light of the news [last] week that our public media landscape is in quite a challenging time and that means now more than ever independent, ardent and critical voices are… all the more important,” Swarbrick said.

“Do we want a functional and diverse and independent public media? If the answer is yes, we need to ensure we have as much representation… and that requires access to the people in power.”

Swarbrick said the speaker may have valid concerns around the number of accredited journalists in the gallery, but the correct approach shouldn’t be to simply revoke access to reporters.

“I think it really calls into light that there is a need for a far more transparent and accountable process for that accreditation,” she said. “Because in lieu of that it’s incredibly opaque and you therefore end up with some concerns… if it’s the speaker of the house and therefore the institution of parliament making those decisions, as opposed to the chair and deputy chair of the press gallery.”

Robertson said the purpose of student media was to fill a gap left empty by mainstream outlets. If this decision wasn’t overturned, important stories impacting young people may be overlooked. “We’re picking up articles that maybe the mainstream news wouldn’t… and we’re also in a really unique position where we cover Christchurch, Dunedin, Auckland, Waikato,” she said.

“We have a really large breadth of area which means if there are issues going on up north that Salient wouldn’t be covering, a different student organisation would be. It’s not just taking away our access here in Wellington, it’s taking away all of the student media’s access.”

Swarbrick agreed, noting difficulties she faced during the Covid-19 pandemic when she tried to raise concerns around student accommodation. The only “meaningful interest” she received on the subject from the media was from student journalists, she said.

At the time the open letter was sent, Salient had not received any direct communication from Brownlee. The letter concluded by asking for a “timely response” from his office regarding the press pass.