TOPSHOT – A South Korean soldier walks past a television screen showing a graphic of the distance between North Korea and Guam at a railway station in Seoul on August 9, 2017. 
President Donald Trump issued an apocalyptic warning to North Korea on Tuesday, saying it faces “fire and fury” over its missile program, after US media reported Pyongyang has successfully miniaturized a nuclear warhead. / AFP PHOTO / JUNG Yeon-Je        (Photo credit should read JUNG YEON-JE/AFP/Getty Images)
TOPSHOT – A South Korean soldier walks past a television screen showing a graphic of the distance between North Korea and Guam at a railway station in Seoul on August 9, 2017. President Donald Trump issued an apocalyptic warning to North Korea on Tuesday, saying it faces “fire and fury” over its missile program, after US media reported Pyongyang has successfully miniaturized a nuclear warhead. / AFP PHOTO / JUNG Yeon-Je (Photo credit should read JUNG YEON-JE/AFP/Getty Images)

PoliticsAugust 11, 2017

Fear, loathing, and North Korean nukes: should Kiwis care?

TOPSHOT – A South Korean soldier walks past a television screen showing a graphic of the distance between North Korea and Guam at a railway station in Seoul on August 9, 2017. 
President Donald Trump issued an apocalyptic warning to North Korea on Tuesday, saying it faces “fire and fury” over its missile program, after US media reported Pyongyang has successfully miniaturized a nuclear warhead. / AFP PHOTO / JUNG Yeon-Je        (Photo credit should read JUNG YEON-JE/AFP/Getty Images)
TOPSHOT – A South Korean soldier walks past a television screen showing a graphic of the distance between North Korea and Guam at a railway station in Seoul on August 9, 2017. President Donald Trump issued an apocalyptic warning to North Korea on Tuesday, saying it faces “fire and fury” over its missile program, after US media reported Pyongyang has successfully miniaturized a nuclear warhead. / AFP PHOTO / JUNG Yeon-Je (Photo credit should read JUNG YEON-JE/AFP/Getty Images)

The spectre of war with Kim Jong-un is back in headlines after a rhetorical exchange that has included Donald Trump threatening “fire and fury”. How serious are the threats from Pyongyang, and what does it mean for New Zealand, asks Asia-Pacific expert Van Jackson

This is how they say people fall asleep, or fall in love, or go bankrupt: gradually at first, and then all at once. For decades the world watched as North Korea moved incrementally but inexorably toward becoming a nuclear weapons state. Its nuclear transformation was generations – not just decades – in the making. And yet the recent revelation that North Korea is now able to mount nuclear warheads on ballistic missiles came suddenly, surprising and dismaying even many devoted Korea watchers.

It shouldn’t have. North Korea’s goals were always clear: regime survival, and if possible reunification of the divided Korean Peninsula under the communist-led North. Nuclear weapons were originally the best means, and eventually the only means, of getting what it wanted. Whereas nuclear weapons have never made much sense to New Zealand, they’ve always made eminent sense to North Korea.

Northeast Asia is a tough geopolitical neighborhood. Its dynastic leadership is deeply paranoid. And it sees the United States as an almost permanent enemy. But more than that, nuclear weapons were a source of national pride for North Korea, as they were in Pakistan and India; the ultimate weapon was a great equalizer in an unending competition with the freer, better educated, and more prosperous South Korea over who had the more legitimate claim to being the “real Korea”.

So for any number of reasons, North Korea’s nuclear weapons are here to stay. And if we believe the leaked intelligence report judging that North Korea now has nuclear-capable intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) – and we should believe it – then North Korea can directly threaten US territory with that capability.

A South Korean soldier walks past a television screen showing a graphic illustrating North Korea’s threat of a strike on the island of Guam. Photo: JUNG YEON-JE/AFP/Getty Images

Should any of this matter to New Zealand?

Yes. Hell, yes.

New Zealand may sit just outside the estimated range of North Korea’s ballistic missiles, but what if the estimate is wrong? And if it’s right, all of Australia falls within North Korea’s missile range. At present, the likelihood of North Korea targeting Australia or New Zealand with a missile attack is rather low, but it’s important to be aware of what’s possible, especially because New Zealand lacks immediate defences in such an event.

But I wouldn’t lose sleep over the missile threat to New Zealand just yet. The bigger issue might actually be that North Korea’s nuclear weapons are a slap in the face to New Zealand’s famously anti-nuclear foreign policy stance. New Zealand has been an important voice in the global disarmament movement, but the ultimate success of that movement could depend on how the world responds to a nuclear North Korea.

Already we know that North Korea’s existence as a new nuclear state creates pressures for other non-nuclear powers to consider going nuclear. In the Second Nuclear Age, the incentives for small or autocratic states to go nuclear increases, not decreases, and the barriers to acquisition are lower, not higher, than during the Cold War. For years North Korea’s pursuit of nuclear weapons stimulated conversations in South Korea and Japan about whether they should pursue an independent nuclear capability in response. Those conversations haven’t gotten far, thankfully, but the primary reason has been US commitments to extend its own nuclear capabilities to protect South Korea and Japan from nuclear attack. So, at best, a nuclear North Korea creates an unending justification for US nuclear promises, paradoxically, as a way to prevent its allies from going nuclear.

Most importantly, New Zealand is a troop-contributing nation to the United Nations Command-led mission in South Korea that oversees the always precarious Armistice Agreement signed by the United States, China, and North Korea in 1953. The New Zealand Defence Force is part of the “tripwire” that aims to warn North Korea off of any overly aggressive designs on the South, and if wars breaks out anew, New Zealand is a default member of the multilateral coalition response.

What can New Zealand do?

Just stay alert, for now. It’s a volatile situation.

Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are trading threats like they’re in a rap battle. Kim said, if provoked, he would turn America into a “sea of fire” (a common threat once reserved only for Seoul, South Korea’s capital). Trump clapped back with the warning that if Kim continued to threaten the U.S., he would be met with “fire and fury, and frankly power the likes of which the world has never seen.” Kim, not to be outdone, called Trump’s bluff within hours, threatening Guam (a US territory) with its nuclear ICBMs. Where does this end? If my past predictions are correct, nowhere good.

New Zealand can’t stop this train, but it can serve as a reminder to the world that sober leadership exists. New Zealand’s role as a “sending state” to the United Nations Command has enduring symbolic importance. New Zealand has taken a principled stand against North Korea’s violations of international law, and has taken the implementation of economic sanctions seriously. And it’s a major player in the Proliferation Security Initiative, which is important for helping build global capacity against the proliferation of nuclear weapons generally. New Zealand makes other international contributions too.

The point of these varied contributions isn’t the narrow purpose each serves, but rather the statement they collectively make: that there is an international community, that New Zealand’s contributions are proof of that, and that the world doesn’t have to devolve into anarchy. North Korea’s existence as a nuclear state is, so far, anathema to the notion of an international community, and that’s a problem.

Van Jackson is a Senior Lecturer in International Relations at Victoria University of Wellington and the Defence & Strategy Fellow at the Centre for Strategic Studies, also at Victoria. He hosts the podcast series Pacific Pundit.


This content is entirely funded by Simplicity, New Zealand’s only nonprofit fund manager, dedicated to making Kiwis wealthier in retirement. Its fees are the lowest on the market and it is 100% online, ethically invested, and fully transparent. Simplicity also donates 15% of management revenue to charity. So far, Simplicity is saving its 7,500 members $2 million annually. Switching takes two minutes.

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WAITANGI, NEW ZEALAND – FEBRUARY 05:  National Party leader John Key (R) talks with Green MP Nandor Tanczos (L) as he walks around the lower Te Tii Marae on the eve of Waitangi Day celebrations February 05, 2007 in Waitangi, New Zealand. Waitangi Day is a public holiday celebrated on February 6th to commemorate the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi between the British and the Maori people.  (Photo by Phil Walter/Getty Images)
WAITANGI, NEW ZEALAND – FEBRUARY 05: National Party leader John Key (R) talks with Green MP Nandor Tanczos (L) as he walks around the lower Te Tii Marae on the eve of Waitangi Day celebrations February 05, 2007 in Waitangi, New Zealand. Waitangi Day is a public holiday celebrated on February 6th to commemorate the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi between the British and the Maori people. (Photo by Phil Walter/Getty Images)

PoliticsAugust 11, 2017

Greens icon Nándor Tánczos on Metiria and what the party really stands for

WAITANGI, NEW ZEALAND – FEBRUARY 05:  National Party leader John Key (R) talks with Green MP Nandor Tanczos (L) as he walks around the lower Te Tii Marae on the eve of Waitangi Day celebrations February 05, 2007 in Waitangi, New Zealand. Waitangi Day is a public holiday celebrated on February 6th to commemorate the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi between the British and the Maori people.  (Photo by Phil Walter/Getty Images)
WAITANGI, NEW ZEALAND – FEBRUARY 05: National Party leader John Key (R) talks with Green MP Nandor Tanczos (L) as he walks around the lower Te Tii Marae on the eve of Waitangi Day celebrations February 05, 2007 in Waitangi, New Zealand. Waitangi Day is a public holiday celebrated on February 6th to commemorate the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi between the British and the Maori people. (Photo by Phil Walter/Getty Images)

In the wake of Metiria Turei’s resignation as Greens co-leader there has been much discussion about a perceived tension between the emphasis on social justice or environmental issues. Don Rowe tracked down Greens icon Nándor Tánczos to get his thoughts.

Nándor Tánczos is undeniably one of the grooviest cats to ever make their way into the government of New Zealand. A former radical activist and leader of the Wild Greens, Tánczos was something of an anomaly even amongst the Green party at large during the early aughts. But beneath the dreadlocks is a capable political brain; during his three terms in parliament Tánczos paved the way for the Clean Slate Act, the Waste Minimisation Act and even the growing of hemp in New Zealand. Though he cut his hair in a purification ceremony two years after leaving parliament, Tánczos remains a practicing Rastafarian and these days resides in Whakatāne, far from the bureaucratic crush. As a member of the Whakatāne District Council he continues to be politically engaged, however, and had plenty to say about the struggles of the Green party in 2017.

Being in parliament you dealt with a lot of stereotyping, how does that intense scrutiny impact you personally? People making value judgements on you based on very little information about a small snippet of your life and so on. 

It’s a very difficult world because you are in the public scrutiny and unlike some forms of notoriety or being in the media, in politics there are a whole lot of resources focused on pulling you down and investigating any dirt to be found, so it’s a pretty tough life and it’s a 24/7 kind of thing. Your family suffer because you’re away from home an enormous amount, and if you’re in the firing line over anything then your family really feels that. That’s one of the hardest things. It’s pretty tough and you’ve gotta have a pretty thick skin but even then it would be pretty rare that at least some of it didn’t get through.

Nandor Tanczos, MP at a GE free protest march in 2001. (Photo by Dean Purcell/Getty Images)

Particularly in a situation like the one Metiria Turei was in. What are your impressions? Do you think she has been treated fairly by the media or the public?

I can’t say about the public, I wouldn’t want to assume that, but there are people who have gotten behind her quite strongly and others who have been very critical – but certainly the media by and large have been incredibly unfair on her. She’s had some very strong support from some of the bloggers, there’s been some very good analysis by people like Bryce Edwards, but I think in terms of the mainstream media it’s been incredibly unfair. You’re dealing with pretty minor things that were done more than 20 years ago, things done by her as a solo mum trying to raise a family and trying to study to better herself, and you compare those to some of the things that our own Prime Minister did as a minister of the crown who took far greater sums of money that he was not entitled to – and far more unethically and for no other reason than that he could. There’s no argument that he faced any kind of financial hardship. 

And of course the reason why is because we have an incredibly vicious attitude in our political world towards beneficiaries. They’re treated very harshly and have been the whipping boy for politicians for quite a number of decades now. That’s all kind of embedded in the system. And the other thing is that she made a statement about it, announced it to the world, in the context of saying ‘actually, we treat beneficiaries really badly,’ and that was the thing that made people upset. She was siding with the poor and the oppressed and that’s what our political world cannot stand.

Nandor Tanczos at a Green Party Campaign at Hopetoun Alpha. (Photo by Dean Purcell/Getty Images)

There are some very uncomfortable themes around class, but also race and gender.

We expect abject grovelling from beneficiaries. There’s class, there’s gender, and there’s ethnicity all tied up in this and we expect grovelling gratitude for any crumb from those people. And that’s the interesting thing, the whole episode has really highlighted that and brought that in front of our eyes. That’s why I say I don’t want to make any assumptions about the public because I think the media, the mainstream media, have really shown their stripes and I think that the public has been able to see that. It’s polarised people, there are people who support her and those who are really opposed to her, but it’s brought that contradiction starkly in front of our face and when the dust settles we’re going to have to find some way of resolving that in our own national psyche.

It seems like there’s a fine line to tread where these discussions are important but at the same time the Green party has in some people’s opinion come along way from what they perceive as the original mandate of being more intensely focused on the environment. Now it sometimes appears to be more about issues of social justice and politics of that nature. 

There’s a couple of points I’d make. The first one is that anyone who says that the Green party should stick to the environment fundamentally fails to understand what Green politics is by its very nature. The Greens aren’t the ‘environment party’, they’re the Green party. It also fails to understand what humans are. Humans are a part of nature and our social world is part of the environment as much as the native forest is. We’re part of this world, not some separate thing, and the relationships we have between one another and with the rest of life are all part of the same thing. Green politics has never been about preserving the environment, it’s always been about the relationships we have with each other and the rest of life on this planet. That’s the first thing.

The second thing is back in 1999 when the Green party was first elected, the caucus that I was in, the Greens have always had an extremely strong social justice focus. It’s interesting because back then the criticism was that we only thought about the environment, and it wasn’t even true then. In fact if you look at what the MPs in that first caucus campaigned on, there were more people working in the areas of social justice or social issues than there were people working on the environment. It’s never been true that that is what we did and that’s what we were exclusively interested in, and at the time we were criticised when people thought that’s what we did.

People’s impressions of what political parties do and what they’re about are often quite far removed from the reality of what the party has actually done. People form these general impressions through snatches in the media and it takes a very long time for those impressions to change. Often that’s based as much on what someone said at the cafeteria as what the party is actually doing. Look at the National party – there’s this ongoing perception that seems very difficult to dislodge that the National party are good economic manages but all the evidence says that is just not true. But there’s this abiding perception that National are good economic managers. To me that’s completely unrelated to anything that they actually do when they’re in government.

Another thing I’d say is that when it comes to Metiria and people saying the Greens should stick to the environment, there’s a misunderstanding that’s been spread again in the mainstream media – and I fear that it will take hold – that the Greens lost support in the latest poll because of what Metiria did around beneficiary issues, and I think that that is a complete misunderstanding. People say she made a mistake and should never have said that, but as she said, the Greens have tried everything to get that discussion up in public. It’s been very difficult to get any traction. Well, this has people talking about it, so it worked in the sense of that objective.

That goes directly back to what you were saying around the current media climate. Everybody was clamouring for the scalp. In that environment, is it possible to turn things around?

That’s right. Everyone wants to claim the scalp. I think the challenge for the Greens has been to control the narrative and that’s become very difficult. I imagine they predicted that to some degree, that once that came out it was always going to be difficult to stay on top of it. The problem is what they couldn’t predict is a change of leadership in Labour. I think it will be a challenge to get on top of the narrative again, but I think they could do it. Now is an opportunity to regroup and look at ways to seize the initiative. The real challenge for the Greens is in terms of support on election day. The simple mathematical reality for the Greens is that they do well when Labour is doing badly and they do badly when Labour is doing well. That’s how it’s always been historically, and the difficulty with that is that it makes the Greens very strong in opposition and it tends to weaken them in government. If there’s enough of a swing to Labour to get a Labour-led government, it hurts the Greens. So there’s a more fundamental long-term strategic issue that I think the Greens have to grapple with. How do they solve that dilemma? Because until they do it’s always going to be difficult to be the substantial part of government they need to be in order to make the changes we need to see.


This content is entirely funded by Simplicity, New Zealand’s only nonprofit fund manager, dedicated to making Kiwis wealthier in retirement. Its fees are the lowest on the market and it is 100% online, ethically invested, and fully transparent. Simplicity also donates 15% of management revenue to charity. So far, Simplicity is saving its 7,500 members $2 million annually. Switching takes two minutes.

The views and opinions expressed above do not reflect those of Simplicity and should not be construed as an endorsement.