Every week on The Primer we ask a local business or product to introduce themselves in eight simple takes. This week we talk to co-founder of Reobot, Jason Lovell, whose IBM Watson-powered chatbot allows you to practise conversational Māori via Facebook Messenger.

ONE: How did Reobot start and what was the inspiration behind it?

I want to speak te reo Māori and I want to practise every day. But with work and other commitments, it isn’t practical for me to go to classes every night. So I started looking at other ways to engage more in te reo Māori. When Jonnie Cain, Reobot’s co-founder, demonstrated to me the ease and accessibility of artificial intelligence (AI) technology after he attended an AI Day, I realised this had the potential to help me and others who might face the same challenges. So we decided to create Reobot.

TWO: Did you have any interest/experience in business or entrepreneurship prior to starting Reobot?

Both Jonnie and I are pretty new to this, but we’ve always been interested in new ideas and finding better ways of doing things to make a positive difference.

THREE: How much Māori do you have to know to get the best out of Reobot?

Reobot is currently set up for people who know a few words or are learning te reo Māori, and I’d suggest using it a little bit each day. It’s a way to converse more, build your confidence and keep what you’re learning at the front of your mind.

Reobot has a short intro for new users and will prompt you with a few key phrases. Ask the same question multiple times to see a few different responses. Or if you’re unsure how to respond, ask the question back to Reobot.

FOUR: Tell me about the technology behind Reobot. Does it learn to personalise as you converse with it more and more?

Reobot is powered by IBM Watson artificial intelligence. Using Watson allows Reobot to understand what the user is saying and respond appropriately. Like a person, Reobot can still understand when there are spelling (or autocorrect) mistakes.

FIVE: How much of your own Māori language skills have improved as a result of using Reobot? What sort of things do you converse with it about?

Jonnie is a good example of someone who knew very little Māori and Reobot is helping him to build up his basic knowledge and confidence. I tend to use it on the train in the morning as a quick refresher, and I’ve definitely noticed I use te reo Māori more often during the day without thinking about it.

We just follow the Reobot prompts to get us going, Things like ‘How are you today?’, ‘What did you do last night?’ or ‘Do you want a coffee?’

SIX: Other than the lack of places to converse in Māori, what do you think are some of the biggest obstacles when it comes to people trying to learn the language?

I think everyone will have their own opinion. But for me, it’s using te reo Māori in everyday situations, making it heard and making it happen without thinking about it. Reobot supports this by providing a space for anyone to practice at any time and hopefully give them the confidence to go out and use it more on a daily basis.

The other big obstacle is scale. We know a lot of New Zealanders would like to learn te reo Māori, but many classes are in such high demand that there are waiting lists. With Reobot, we’ve created a scalable environment for learning some conversational te reo that can be used every day.

SEVEN: Do you have any other plans to scale/grow further and if so, what are they?

Our aim is to have more people having conversations in te reo Māori. So in addition to building Reobot’s conversational abilities, we’re hoping to have something soon to help people with their pronunciation.

We also want Reobot to help connect people learning te reo Māori so they can support each other. So we’re looking into ways to support that.

EIGHT: Lastly, tell us about a start-up or business that you really admire right now.

Ika Bowl, a little Polynesian poke bar on Snickel Lane in Auckland CBD. They’re new and fresh, taking a different approach to a trend and delivering a great product with a unique New Zealand experience. That’s what we hope to achieve with Reobot too.

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New Zealanders get charged some of the highest fees for debit and credit card use in the world and most of us don’t even realise it. Paul Brislen attempts to explain interchange – fees paid between banks for the acceptance of card based transactions.

Ah, shopping. The hunt, the choosing, the purchasing. The endorphin rush. The buyer’s remorse.

It’s all part of life’s rich tapestry and now that I’m a grown up I have a shiny credit card that comes loaded with a black stripe, chip, and wireless interface. That means I can wave it around like Lord Muck and money flows, typically (and somewhat sadly) from my account largely into those of Countdown, McDonald’s and Mount Albert Grammar School.

But that’s OK because along the way I get Airpoints and other similar baubles that let me buy stuff without spending any money at all! Thanks ASB and Air New Zealand for your largesse.

Of course, that’s not quite how it works, and what actually happens is something of a pig’s ear. New Zealand card users get charged more than just about anyone else in the world. We get to help prop up those hard-working Australian banks and American credit card companies and we do so cheerfully and willingly, all the while ignoring our ability to use our own money without incurring any fees at all.

Retail New Zealand’s annual survey looks at how much we spend in fees when shopping. Fees incurred by us, the customers, and also fees incurred by the retailer which, of course, get passed on to us.

Currently, we pay twice as much as they do in Australia, and between three and six times the rate charged in the UK. Altogether, it amounts to a tax on retail purchases that we aren’t even aware we’re paying but which goes straight to the bottom line of the banks and credit card companies.

As customers, we get charged a percentage of the transaction every time we use a credit card or when you use a debit card for a contactless payment. With credit cards, that’s probably fair enough. You’re using someone else’s money so it makes some sense that you get charged a fee for doing so.

But hang on, you say –  I don’t get charged a fee. I pay my credit card off before the due date each month so I don’t get charged at all.

Well, yes and no. What you say is true – you don’t get charged directly, but the merchant who is offering the service to you gets charged a percentage of the total value of the transaction. How much they get charged depends on what sort of card you’re using (gold, platinum etc) and what sort of merchant they are (corner store, Ferrari dealership, etc). Here, take a look at the fees from Visa’s website.

This is why you often see EFTPOS terminals with “no credit” stickers on them. The merchant doesn’t want to give up a variable and unmanageable amount because you chose to use this card over that card.

Merchants also pay a fee to allow you to wave your magic wand (aka your contactless debit card). That’s why we often see “no paywave” stickers.

Some retailers do pass these fees on – and there’s been a push to make them stop. But come on, sheeple, wake up! If they can’t charge you a 2% handling fee explicitly, they’ll just whack 2% on the top of every transaction and that’s no better for any of us. I’d rather see when I’m being charged a fee than just see every item cost more regardless.

But what about debit cards, I hear you say? Debit cards access your own money but when you use the contactless capability again the retailer must pay the fee (and again, that cost is eventually passed on to you, the customer).

Banks are incentivised by the credit card companies to roll out these debit cards. The banks get a cut of the money earned through these fees. That money goes to pay for those Airpoints and other goodies that you “buy” without paying for. Thanks, Air New Zealand and ASB. I love my new sneakers/wine rack/flight upgrade.

You’re paying, you just didn’t know it.

The other way is to pay with your EFTPOS card. You swipe the card through the machine, the money is transferred to the retailer’s account, you walk out with the purchased goods wrapped up in a paper bag and everyone wins.

There is no transaction fee, just a monthly charge for the terminal. A retailer can sell $1,000 through the terminal or $100,000,000 and it costs them the same – $15 for the monthly access fee.

EFTPOS solved a lot of problems for retail and banking. The banks got a safer money transfer system, the retailer got money straight into the account, the customer didn’t have to carry cash and couldn’t spend what they didn’t have. But because it doesn’t generate the fees that the credit and contactless debit cards do, it’s unloved.

Now the next wave of digital payments is upon us – and it’s a post-plastic world. App-based services that connect customer, retailer and bank accounts directly so you can pay without incurring costs already exist. The industry is working on an Open Payments Platform (OPP) that will allow the development of new services that solve new problems that we haven’t even created yet.

All of that is great news and wonderful for both retailer and shopper alike, just so long as we sort out how the charges will be introduced and manage that carefully from day one.

EFTPOS was a huge success in New Zealand because we didn’t charge per swipe. It meant retailers were more than happy to install these machines and customers were more than happy to use them. Let’s not throw that baby out with the bathwater as we move to a digital payments world that doesn’t bother with cards at all.

Disclaimer: Paymark is a client of Paul Brislen’s PR agency. This column does not represent Paymark or its views.

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