I’m writing you this off the back of a meeting in which I was the most annoying person alive. I don’t know what it is about me. I could tell you that it is so annoying when you are in a meeting and someone goes off agenda, derailing the whole thing. I get annoyed at others when they interrupt people. I hate it when people yabber incessantly or say they have a question but just state an opinion. But I still do all these things all the time!
I leave social interactions cringing at all the things I said and all the cues I clearly missed. I do take some comfort in knowing at least I’m not a white man so people hopefully view my assertiveness as purposeful instead of the major character flaw it actually is.
Is this a common feeling? Is everyone constantly holding their tongues so that they are not the only ones talking 100% of the time, or am I alone in my insatiable need to take up space?
How do I become one of those people who listen instead of talk? How do I stop being so insufferable?
Help!
Chatty Cathy
Dear CC,
I cannot wait for everyone reading this to email me asking “Is the writer of the letter a woman called [common female name] who works at the [geographical region] [place of employment] 👀👀👀?” (My lips are sealed.)
First of all, thank you for this extremely funny letter. While not everyone will relate to being a chronic yabberer, everyone has annoying traits. Most of us probably don’t even know what our most annoying traits are, and for that, we should all count our blessings. I definitely don’t think your problem is ubiquitous. I often have the opposite problem and hear myself zoning out mid-conversation and saying increasingly banal things like “well a good lawn mower is expensive” to fill the ever-widening silence.
I love a freelance yapper. Some people are born to talk shit, and although they might exceed their recommended daily word limit, there is such a thing as a natural conversationalist, who cannot help but derail every social interaction with fascinating but unrelated anecdotes about their new side hustle building hammocks for mice, or the time their uncle tried to rob an aquarium. I personally feel these people bring a little cheer into an otherwise boring existence. Having said that, we all know a few extremely dull people who will take any opportunity to discuss their daughter-in-law’s distended bowels at length.
The first step to being less annoying is recognising you have a problem. Of course, you could be totally delusional. There’s always the possibility that you’re making lots of valid and meaningful contributions to the work meeting and everyone is deeply grateful for your input. If you’re simply pointing out things that need to be said and you find you need to be assertive in order to get your point across, I would urge you not to worry about it.
But if you constantly find yourself nervously derailing every work meeting with pointless anecdotes about how much you hate bees, or which yoghurt flavour gives you the worst gas, perhaps it’s time to reassess your conversational strategy.
The first thing you need to do is figure out what’s going on for you.
Did you grow up in a house of overtalkers and have to constantly interrupt everyone in order to be heard? How comfortable are you with silence? Are you like this in every social interaction, or is it worse at work? Do you feel listened to in other aspects of your life?
Are you getting trapped in an anxiety spiral, by saying something you fear is dumb, and then quickly saying something else to cover up the last dumb thing you said?
When you hear yourself talk, do you usually feel like you’re trying to subconsciously defend/explain yourself? Or do you have very powerful opinions that are hard for you to hold back?
I think knowing where the “yapping” comes from is probably the first step to meaningfully addressing the issue. If you’re feeling lonely or unheard, perhaps there’s another way to get that need met, whether that’s in therapy, writing a diary, or scheduling a gossip with friends. If you’re deeply uncomfortable with silence, maybe meditation would help. If this is a family/culture issue, you probably just need to practise better conversational etiquette while you’re in a professional context.
Next time you feel it happening, see if you can pinpoint the emotional trigger and start developing an awareness of when it happens and why. The more you notice yourself interrupting, the easier it will be for you to stop.
It’s never a waste to learn to become a better listener. I feel like a common “chatty Cathy” archetype is a person who feels intensely socially anxious, overshares to compensate/explain their behaviour, and then leaves every conversation feeling exposed and humiliated. The best antidote to this is to practise hardcore listening skills. Develop an intense curiosity in those around you. Practice redirecting the attention away from yourself, and back towards the person talking.
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Anna Rawhiti-Connell — Senior writer
Pretend you are a freelance talk show host, and the person you are chatting with is Hollywood behemoth Tom Cruise. People love talking about themselves, and the more you can draw someone else out, the less embarrassed you’ll leave these interactions feeling. There are lots of resources out there on how to improve your listening skills, and you can probably find them by googling “how to improve my listening skills.”
HOWEVER. This advice is strictly off the clock. The last thing you want to do is drag a compulsory work meeting out by asking a lot of nuanced questions about the ins and outs of houseboat ownership, while everyone else is dying to get away and have a quick fag.
Until you develop a deeper understanding about why this is happening, here are some practical tips for shutting up in the moment, gleaned from spying on relevant “oversharing” Reddit threads:
Carry an enormous bottle of water, and every time you want to say something take a big sip instead. You may end up needing to pee every 15 minutes, but your skin will be glowing and healthy.
If you need to say something, try using a calm and authoritative tone. I have no proof that this will help, but if your problem is related to anxiety, trying to project a calm demeanour can sometimes help relax you.
Take notes at meetings. Not only will this keep you occupied, but if you write down your thoughts before you say them aloud and sit with them for a moment, you might feel less compelled to blurt them out.
Gamify your problem. Allow yourself 50 syllables per meeting. Distribute them wisely.
If all else fails, cover your mouth with your hand, like Rodin’s thinker.
Ultimately, it’s hard to know if you really have an issue, so if you have any friends you really trust, it might be worth asking them for a reality check.
But if you’re naturally a yappy person, don’t sweat it. Some people just have the gift of the gab, and I would hate for you to go prematurely mute if your talking isn’t actually a problem. The goal isn’t to shut you up. The goal is for you to walk away from social interactions feeling confident in your contribution, instead of embarrassed and anxious.
I think you should use your conversational prowess for good. Write a gossipy email. Visit a retirement home, and find a lonely fellow prattler. Call a talk-back radio station and tell them what you really think about your local traffic intersection. As long as you can hold it in when the situation calls for silence, there’s nothing wrong with letting loose every now and again.
Good luck!
Keep going!
People who spend time in the mountains can see the snow melting before their eyes (Image: Tom Hadley, with additional design by The Spinoff)
People who spend time in the mountains can see the snow melting before their eyes (Image: Tom Hadley, with additional design by The Spinoff)
Trampers, skiers and mountaineers are among the first to see the climate changing, but are they making their own changes in response?
Tom Hadley and his partner Tōrea knew exactly where they wanted to go. They had pored over maps, called people for information about the incredibly remote area they were visiting, and plotted routes over toothy ridges and into valleys carved out by glaciers. But the reality wasn’t quite what they were expecting.
Days into a trip in Te Rua-o-te-moko (Fiordland) at the start of this year, they had to reroute a previously simple descent. “We had some photos we had seen from three or four years earlier at the same time of year, showing a ramp of snow that would let us descend easily,” Hadley, a long-time fan of trips deep in the mountains, says. “But the snow was gone, leaving a challenging system of bluffs we couldn’t get down.” They ended up taking the long way around.
Tom Hadley near the base of Te moeka o Tuawe (the Fox Glacier); glacial retreat makes travel to remote places much harder. (Image: courtesy Tom Hadley)
For people who spend time outdoors, there’s no way to ignore that a warming climate is happening now. If you go skiing every winter, you might notice more rocks and tussocks poking up through thinning snow cover. If you’re climbing mountains, you might have to change access routes as crevasses yawn open on melting glaciers. As Hadley found, if you’re plotting complex trans-alpine routes, you can’t rely on the topographic maps being accurate, as reducing snow leaves cliffs where there had once been frozen water. Everywhere in the world, high-altitude mountain areas are warming much faster than the global average.
At the same time, outdoor activities can generate lots of emissions, especially in the transport required to get to these areas. Activities like skiing and multi-day tramping are often undertaken by people with higher incomes (as research commissioned by DOC in 2020 has found) – people who could skip out on the melting frontcountry to go heliskiing or take a trip to Canada to do some ice climbing instead. So what is New Zealand’s outdoor community saying – and doing – about climate change?
“We go to these places because they’re beautiful and special – global warming puts everything we love about the mountains, from snow cover to the health of rivers, at risk,” says Megan Dimozantos, president of the Federated Mountain Clubs. It’s something she’s observed herself: on a 2021 trip to the Snow White glacier deep in the Olivine Wilderness Area, she got stuck with her companions after discovering that a photo she’d been sent of the glacier was now 500 metres of bare rock.
Right, the photo Dimozantos had been sent of the Snow White glacier in the 1990s. Left, the same glacier, a fraction of its previous size, in 2021. (Image: supplied)
The business of skiing in a warming world
Snow sports are another particularly obvious place where the reality of a warming world is visible. North Island skiing has a limited lifespan at the current rate of warming; three particularly warm years pushed the previous owners of the Ruapehu commercial skifields into voluntary administration, before the government bailed the company out for $7m.
Without government money, but even more affected, are the small club fields on the slopes of the volcanoes. Tukino on Ruapehu and Awakino on Taranaki didn’t have enough snow to run their full tows this year. Porters Pass skifield in Canterbury has already closed for the season; so has the Rainbow Ski Area near Nelson, Temple Basin and Mt Cheeseman ski field. “The snowline retreat is real,” reads a post on Craigieburn ski field’s Facebook page, where only two of the tows are operating due to reduced snow.
Tussock appearing through the snow at Canterbury’s Broken River skifield in early September 2024 (Image: Shanti Mathias)
The bigger, more southern skifields have fared better. Treble Cone received 48cm of snow in the Otago storm last week; the field above the sparkling Lake Wānaka should be open well into the school holidays. “In the short term, it’s the increased volatility of weather that concerns us – we had a drought, nearly a month without snow, then a big dump at the start of July and August. Little and often is what we’d prefer!” says Ewan Mackie, Treble Cone’s manager and the sustainability lead at parent tourism country Real NZ, which also owns the Cardrona skifield. Climate change will cause extreme winds more often in winter; a snow field can’t open if everyone on the chairlifts is going to be rattled in the icy blasts. “We’ve had to be flexible with our operations,” Mackie says. If it’s windy, for instance, they might close the upper basin.
As businesses, skifields are particularly exposed to the existential risk of warmer and less predictable weather, making advocating for climate change a good business strategy. The skiing industry in the US has lost more than $5 billion to climate change in the last two decades, and ski destination Switzerland will have 80 fewer snow days per year by 2071.
On the Cardrona website (also owned by Real NZ), it’s already possible to toggle between a “summer” and “winter” mode. In a single click, images of billowing snow powder melt away, replaced by mountain bikes, go-karts and dry hills, like watching what climate change is doing at an ultra-fast speed. It’s a move attempted by ski fields around the world as an attempt to diversify their businesses in a warming world.
Advocate Marian Krogh has made skiing her life, and she sees how it flows through the rest of the economy. (Image: supplied)
Cold winters with steady snowfall are important for lots of reasons, say Marian Krogh– including economic ones. She works as a physio: less skiing and snow means less work in the clinic. (Arguably a positive from ACC’s perspective). Physios with less work spend less money in the cafe’s. Hotels are unfilled and hire fewer workers. “Every day it rains, not snows, there is less work; the outdoor community is a canary in the coalmine, it’s really impacting our livelihood.” Krogh lived seasonally in Colorado for years as a ski guide, where she saw the work of Protect Our Winters (POW), an organisation founded by snowboarder Jeremy Jones.
POW does climate advocacy in different countries, with a focus on snow sports. “My flatmates and I would sit on the couch feeling sad about the climate – I wanted to do something, so I started the POW New Zealand chapter,” Krogh says. She’s the organisations’ lead advocate in New Zealand.
How do you reduce emissions when you use high-carbon transport?
Cardrona and Treble Cone have undertaken detailed carbon accounting over the last half decade. Skifields are particularly high emission businesses. “We rely on fossil fuel powered technology,” Mackie says. “Fuel combustion is the biggest source of emissions by far, we groom the slopes with snow groomers, people, goods, materials all have to come up the mountain in vehicles.” The field also relies partially on diesel fuel to supplement the electricity it gets from the power grid, to fuel the snow makers that supplement the increasingly unpredictable cold stuff from the sky.
Ironically, efforts to reduce the overall emissions of the field can make it directly responsible for more carbon dioxide: the fields run free buses from the base of the mountain to reduce the number of car trips. By the conventions of emissions accounting, this actually increases the amount of “scope one” emissions the company is directly responsible for. “But we choose a holistic understanding of climate impacts, so we can’t just wash our hands of it.” They’ve also banned non-recyclable waste on the mountain, as emissions from waste was a place the field could have direct impact.
Ewan Mackie with a kārearea, part of Real NZ’s work to restore biodiversity in the Cardrona Valley (Image: supplied)
Mackie can’t ignore that most people get to Queenstown to go skiing in a plane, especially the “high value” international tourists. The business model of New Zealand’s skifields is basically built on this assumption; without people flying from Auckland and Australia during the pandemic, all major skifields lost millions of dollars.
Tramping clubs, which are more local, have more opportunities to change the transport emissions of their clubs. The FMCs member clubs, which include caving, canyoning, paragliding, packrafting, skiing, mountaineering as well as tramping clubs, have started efforts through their “recreation transition” campaign. “We’ve started doing ridesharing or shuttling together, so people don’t individually drive to road ends,” Dimozantos says. This could have other benefits by lowering costs: the expense of transport is a major barrier to New Zealanders taking part in outdoor activities.
The whitewater clubs are experimenting with doing shuttles past rapids on bike or foot, rather than using cars; collapsible, lightweight packrafts mean that exciting trips down rivers don’t depend on helicopter drop-offs. The group’s “love our huts” campaign also carries out work maintaining for huts and tracks that would otherwise be done by DOC with a helicopter.
Megan Dizamantos spends time in the hills as a tramper and with Search and Rescue. She’s seen the mountains change dramatically as the climate warms. (Image: supplied)
So… what are outdoor businesses and communities doing about climate change?
While climate change is clearly an existential threat to the snow sports industry, it might seem surprising that more organisations haven’t signed up to advocacy like Protect Our Winters. “I wonder if the personality of someone who spends a lot of time outside is not the personality of someone who spends a lot of time engaging in the civic sense – ‘I want to be by myself in the hills, not in the city talking to people’,” says Krogh. Politicians are happy to talk about how Aotearoa’s remarkable natural landscape is a draw for tourists or an asset to protect – but the people leading climate groups don’t often talk about their love of snowy adventures when they’re giving speeches or presenting to select committee.
Krogh thinks this is partially because people are afraid of being seen as hypocrites. “I hear ‘skiing is elitist, when you stop heli-skiing we’ll talk to you, your sport has such a high carbon footprint so you can’t talk’.” Lots of that criticism is deserved – especially because the people who can afford to go skiing (and particularly heli-skiing) are the people who can also afford to lower their personal carbon footprints by taking fewer flights and driving less. The comments under a recent short film POW in the US made to address the fear of hypocrisy make it clear that many people think that individual emissions are still worth reducing while advocating for big-picture change. “It feels really disingenuous to just hand wave any modicum of personal responsibility so long as it’s fun for you,” one commenter says, with dozens echoing similar sentiments.
The snow that remains is exquisitely beautiful – which makes protecting it essential. (Image: courtesy Tom Hadley, on the Fox Glacier)
But to Krogh, the focus on systemic change, not individually shaming people flying around the world to go skiing, is essential. “Often the biggest impact is combining our voices – we advocate for strong policies that mean everyone has choices to take public transport, or bike – or drive if they need to.” POW has run several “biking to the skifield” days, and is advocating for a public bus between Wānaka and Queenstown. RealNZ is supportive “It would be fabulous to get off a plane in Queenstown, catch a bus to Wānaka and then to the skifield, use public transport in and around Queenstown and Wānaka, do a whole trip without needing a car,” Mackie says.
POW has also encouraged skifields to submit on government bills connected to climate change. Mackie acknowledges that Real NZ doesn’t have a set advocacy policy to submit on every single climate-change-related bill they can – but they’re spoken for a number of bills and local government initiatives; the container reuse scheme, public transport in Queenstown, electrification, and more. “As Cardrona and Treble Cone we have a large voice – we’ve used it well, but we could scale that up more, and talk about all the work we still have to do,” he says.
Being outside is about what’s worth protecting
There’s a tendency Mackie has noticed in his sustainability work at RealNZ, where the focus is all about reducing emissions: doing less harm (but still doing harm) rather than actually improving the environment. Seeing thousands of native trees slowly growing on Treble Cone’s slopes, with more to come, makes him hopeful. “We don’t plant trees because we’re going to offset emissions, we’re not into that,” Mackie says in his gentle Scottish accent. “Regenerating biodiversity is good for the whenua immediately, it’s not just about getting bummed out because you’ve driven up to go skiing for the day.”
This emotional element is key to the future of spending time in the outdoors, even in a warming world. Hadley has spent years returning to Fiordland, both to go tramping and to do conservation work. Seeing the face of mountains he knows change as snow melts carries lots of grief. “It’s not a human relationship, but it feels like grief, to see these places you love changing,” he says.
The reality of the climate crisis means that more of his friends are planning trips in Fiordland, rather than further north; a warming planet shapes how he imagines future trips too. “Sometimes I’ll be in a group planning a trip, and we’ll avoid certain places, knowing the travel would be difficult, knowing you’ll feel sad because it isn’t the same.” He hopes that adapting to climate change will be an invitation for trampers and climbers to think more about how they treat the natural world, to engage with mana whenua. “We have to think broadly about what it means to go on trips in the mountains,” he says.
High in the Fox Glacier/ Te Moeka o Tuawe, the ice is a reminder of what climate action seeks to protect (Image courtesy Tom Hadley)
That thought of the future is what Mackie holds on to, too, although his hopes are person shaped just as often as mountain shaped. “I have a 20-month-old son, I want him to be skiing and snowboarding in 20 years like I did,” Mackie says. “It sounds cheesy, talking about tamariki and future generations – but I think it really plays for people.”
Joy, outdoor enthusiasts say, is important. “I went skiing this morning, it was so fun, the mountains were beautiful, everyone was hooting and hollering with delight,” Krogh says. Spending time outside reminds her what she’s advocating for.
Preserving recreational trips to the mountains isn’t the most important reason to do everything possible to limit the extent of climate change and the damage that is already happening. A warming planet impacts every part of life: millions of homes have been and will be destroyed, millions of people need to find new work, thousands of species have been or will become extinct, just to list a few of the impacts.
Instead, recreation is a starting place: a reminder of how, in a warming world, you can’t run to the mountains to escape the consequences of human damage. “People look at recreation as a selfish thing to do, but it aligns with what we hold dear as a society: wellbeing, appreciation for te taiao, health. Look after nature and nature looks after you – we need to develop that connection,” Dimozantos says. That doesn’t have to look like skiing or tramping: these sports remain expensive, and hurtling downhill with long sticks attached to your feet or carrying heavy packs through snowy forests will never suit everyone. But everyone engages with the outdoors in some way, which means we all have something to lose as the climate heats up.
People who regularly visit snowy, high-altitude places see these changes already. Ideally, the awe of wild mountains is something they can bring back with them. Hadley has noticed that over years of trips, he’s started to see nature differently. He no longer wonders “how can nature serve my enjoyment” but remembers that the environment is worth protecting in and of itself. “Physical landscapes and ecosystems have their own value, that’s what you learn from time in these environments,” he says. “I come back from these remote places with a different way of thinking about [environmental] crises, a new understanding of why every action is important.”